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Apple OS X El Capitan

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Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#91

Post by cwyers »

leoc wrote: post #89
cwyers wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve is an oversight, yeah -- I did mention them in another comment here. I don't really think of them as a game developer anymore, but I'm probably being unfair. If Apple supports Vulkan but with worse drivers than Metal, I'm not sure that's any better. OSX has roughly four times the penetration of Linux in the latest Steam hardware and software survey. I'm not sure it's worth it for most developers to deliberately…

I was talking more about Vulkan's second-place position on Windows than about Linux (Vulkan is likely to have some advantages on Windows, like being less tied to the Windows roadmap than DirectX, or indeed OpenGL), and if Apple provided bad Vulkan support I think they'd just be letting themselves in for bad Vulkan-based ports. But overall I don't think we're really disagreeing very much here. (EDIT: see below.)

Did you mean Vulkan where you said "Mantle's second-place position on Windows?" As far as I can tell, Mantle is pretty much DOA -- Nvidia and Intel aren't going to support it on any platform, and Nvidia has 52% of the PC market according to the latest Steam user survey[1], and Nvida/Intel combine for roughly 80%. Even AMD is deprecating Mantle in favor of DX 12/"GLnext"[2].

[1] http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey [2] https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2015/05/12/o...

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#92

Post by epmatsw »

Dain42 wrote: post #73
santaclaus wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm looking forward to OS X 10.12, La Brea.

Considering how 10.10 traps machines older than about 3 years in the digital equivalent thereof, they missed their chance.

Happily using 10.10 on a 6 year old macbook pro :)

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#93

Post by coldtea »

izacus wrote: post #31
rimantas wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This kind of behaviour makes me really really sorry to be > an Apple customer :/ Well, don't be then. I don't get this cry about walled gardens. Feel free to roam in the jungle if you don't like them.

Well, I already do own a Mac and I actually like using it. Are you telling me I'm not allowed to be annoyed and complain about having 3D performance crippled on the OS X as opposed to Windows? Are you telling me I'm not allowed to be annoyed about having to reboot my machine constantly to get the most of 3D performance? To borrow your words - I don't get why are you criticising me when I express opinion about a one a…

3D performance for what? Are you a gamer?

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#94

Post by coldtea »

zamalek wrote: post #41
gtf21 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, don't be then. I don't get this cry about walled gardens. Feel free to roam in the jungle if you don't like them. I really don't get why people pull this "if you don't like it, leave" argument (in everything from politics to tech). There are lots of reasons someone might want to use a mac (I do), one is perfectly entitled to complain about aspects of Apple's approach to try to make the argument for change.

I think it originates from misunderstanding what a walled garden is and why they are great for customer retention. The whole point of walled garden is locking people in. Avoiding a walled garden can only happen before you invest in the garden. Once you have spent money in iTunes or the store (or e.g. even have a long list of contacts in some IM client) you are stuck unless you are happy to lose those purchases/data.

>The whole point of walled garden is locking people in.

No, the whole point for me is keeping the weeds out and have a comprehensive experience where stuff works together well.

It's 2015, there's nothing much to keep me locked in in any "walled garden".

I can use another client for my IMAP emails (or export and re-import them in 20 ways), I can move my photos out of Photos app, I use Chrome to begin with but I could very easily export Safari bookmarks too, my iTunes music files are not locked, so I can play them on Linux/Windows, etc.

What the apps? Those were always non portable between platforms, walled garden or not. And in the last 10 years, a lot of those are run on the web in the first place, or offered for free/near free anyway with the OS, or are subscriptions (e.g. the Adobe Suite, Microsoft Office 365, etc.), so I can move those about freely between OS X and say Windows.

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#95

Post by sixbrx »

Dain42 wrote: post #66
zamalek wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it originates from misunderstanding what a walled garden is and why they are great for customer retention. The whole point of walled garden is locking people in. Avoiding a walled garden can only happen before you invest in the garden. Once you have spent money in iTunes or the store (or e.g. even have a long list of contacts in some IM client) you are stuck unless you are happy to lose those purchases/data.

I had this experience leaving the Apple walled garden about six years ago and moving on to Ubuntu (with Windows for gaming purposes in free time). I just kind of ate the costs. I suppose technically I still have access to my video content purchased on iTunes, but I'd have to boot to Windows or use a VM to get to it. My rationale was kind of along the lines of avoiding the sunk cost fallacy: just because I'd been inve…

I did a similar "switch" where I kept my macbook/retina display laptop hardware but switched to Windows 8 for the OS.

It's been a good experience except for one thing: Apple delivers no drivers for the integrated video, disables it in EFI from Bootcamp, so it runs hot and has a short battery life when not in OS X. I haven't seen anyone reporting success working around this problem, and it's been going on for years for us "switchers" to Windows.

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#96

Post by huy_hong »

sappapp wrote: post #36
lambdasquirrel wrote: post #4

Welp... it looks like OS X is about to discover tiling window management lite. ;)

I've been using slate for a while now. Highly recommended. https://github.com/jigish/slate

The original jigish/slate project hasn't been updated since Feb 2013. The mattr-/slate fork has been solid for me since 10.9+ and is maintained regularly:

https://github.com/mattr-/slate

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#97

Post by coldtea »

pmdulaney wrote: post #29

When Apple switched from the big cats naming scheme to "places in California" I predicted (mostly to my adult children, who all have Apple computers): "How much ya wanna bet it's gonna be a cold day in hell when they name a build after someplace in SOUTHERN California?" If I'm wrong, I suppose the first build named after something in SoCal will be called "Joshua Tree" -- nice tie in with U2.

El Segundo?

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#98

Post by leoc »

cwyers wrote: post #91
leoc wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking more about Vulkan's second-place position on Windows than about Linux (Vulkan is likely to have some advantages on Windows, like being less tied to the Windows roadmap than DirectX, or indeed OpenGL), and if Apple provided bad Vulkan support I think they'd just be letting themselves in for bad Vulkan-based ports. But overall I don't think we're really disagreeing very much here. (EDIT: see below.)

Did you mean Vulkan where you said "Mantle's second-place position on Windows?" As far as I can tell, Mantle is pretty much DOA -- Nvidia and Intel aren't going to support it on any platform, and Nvidia has 52% of the PC market according to the latest Steam user survey[1], and Nvida/Intel combine for roughly 80%. Even AMD is deprecating Mantle in favor of DX 12/"GLnext"[2]. [1] http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey…

Yes, of course I meant Vulkan, sorry. IIRC though Vulkan is effectively Khronos-standardised Mantle, so it's not all that fair to say that Mantle has died exactly.

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#99

Post by wwweston »

addandsubtract wrote: post #86
Dain42 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to support an elementary school full of Macs, and Yosemite has been my ongoing nightmare. (Well, that and the bad joke known as OS X Server.) I won't update during the year for obvious reasons, but I'm still trying to decide whether or not I'm going to have to fragment my environment again (after just getting it all together with 10.9, finally). The incentive from Apple is very strong to install 10.10, but it…

>The incentive from Apple is very strong to install 10.10 And what incentive is that? Unless you need to latest Xcode to develop iOS apps, I don't see a reason to use Yosemite. I, for one, am happy to have stayed on 10.9 and will stick with it until El Capitan proves to be an "upgrade".

> And what incentive is that?

For one thing, they won't sell you Mavericks anymore. If you didn't buy it while it was out, it is simply unavailable for you to purchase. They obviously could sell it to you, but they won't. It's a matter of intentional policy to make sure you don't buy in at any point earlier than the current one.

(Take that in, BTW. That means someone at Apple made the judgment that it is literally more important that you have their latest than it is for everyone to have a stable, reliable OS.)

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#100

Post by Artemis2 »

coldtea wrote: post #93
izacus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I already do own a Mac and I actually like using it. Are you telling me I'm not allowed to be annoyed and complain about having 3D performance crippled on the OS X as opposed to Windows? Are you telling me I'm not allowed to be annoyed about having to reboot my machine constantly to get the most of 3D performance? To borrow your words - I don't get why are you criticising me when I express opinion about a one a…

3D performance for what? Are you a gamer?

For a computer that costs thousands of dollars. Is that too much to ask that Apple make proper drivers for the one new model of discrete graphics cards they ship every year?
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