“A Statement with My View on Curtis Yarvin and Strange Loop” • Hacker News Board

Re: “A Statement with My View on Curtis Yarvin and Strange Loop”

#101

Post by tptacek » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 10:25 PM UTC

whatucantsay1 wrote: post #5

Interesting -- another discussion of this incident was at the top spot of HN some 30 mins ago, and was flagkilled. Is it that we're not interested in discussing it, or only interested in discussing it if certain people / viewpoints are not allowed?

That other post was not a good-faith analysis of the incident, and its denouement was a single-sentence graf that claimed every intellectual adversary of Yarvin was a communist.

I flagged this post as well, because the community interest in the norms of a single tech conference don't outweigh the the fact the issues here are toxic to the community itself. HN is terrible at discussing politics, and this is basically a story about politics.

Re: “A Statement with My View on Curtis Yarvin and Strange Loop”

#102

Post by saryant » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 10:26 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #90

leereeves wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of extremist attacks a child because of their father's political views?

Somebody who believes in their cause. While I wouldn't take it out on a child, I won't want to associate with somebody who was against gay marriage or try to save somebody who was against women's rights to their own bodies. I feel that anybody who spends time with the people they strongly disagree with, when they don't have to, lack a moral backbone.

How does shunning someone for their political beliefs help advance your own beliefs?

Seriously.

Refusing to professionally engage with someone due to private political beliefs will do nothing but strengthen the resolve behind that belief. Instead of stepping across the battle lines into your exalted realm of enlightenment, they will circle the wagons and reload the muskets.

What if Tolkien had refused to befriend CS Lewis due to Lewis' atheism? Lewis would've remained an atheist all his life. Instead, through their friendship, Tolkien brought Lewis over, leading him to write one of the most influential texts in evangelical Christianity ever published.

There's a lesson in there for absolutists.

Re: “A Statement with My View on Curtis Yarvin and Strange Loop”

#103

Post by saryant » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 10:28 PM UTC

PopeOfNope wrote: post #85

shalmanese wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of person stereotypes an entire state of 40 million people based on their experiences in one small town?

The kind that uses logic and reason instead of rhetorical appeals to emotion. The 'personal is the political' is part of the culture in california and is common throughout the state. And if you don't believe me, you should go on a job hunt and tell every interviewer who talks to you that you're a republican. Now that I think about it, I want to do just that and document the results. Should be interesting.

While I don't entirely disagree, I wonder how you would run that sort of experiment. I've been on the interviewing side of the hiring table and if someone had brought up politics—either side—I would probably leave with a sour taste in my mouth. Bringing up a politics in such an unprompted and unprofessional fashion is a big red flag, whether I agree with their stance or not.

Re: “A Statement with My View on Curtis Yarvin and Strange Loop”

#104

Post by ZanyProgrammer » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 10:31 PM UTC

PopeOfNope wrote: post #86

paxdickinson wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy sounds like he would be happy to see anti-Zionism as a litmus test for conference speakers. Is that the kind of tech industry you want? Should speakers at technical conferences have all their political opinions pre-vetted for approval by a panel of progressives?

Aren't we already there, though? This is one of the reasons I left Silicon Valley three years ago. My personal opinions would get me called racist, sexist and homophobic by Marxist standards and I was exhausted by the political mask I had to assume just to find and keep work. Luckily, SV isn't as large a percentage of the tech industry as it likes to think. It's just over represented on tech news sites.

So, you have to be a Marxist to be offended by homophobia? Or are redefining Marxist as "someone who gets offended by non 'politically correct' speech"?

Re: “A Statement with My View on Curtis Yarvin and Strange Loop”

#105

Post by gclaramunt » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 10:32 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #8

I wonder - suppose someone Alex Miller agreed with, but who also caused controversy, was met with opposition by folks who disliked her. For example, suppose a bunch of gamergate types were to complain about Brianna Wu giving a purely technical talk about pathfinding and AI. Would all the folks who are so quick to defend Strangeloop also defend it in this case? Somehow I doubt it.

In the same vein I would love to see the people defending the talk arguing in favor of a Noam Chomsky presentation

Re: “A Statement with My View on Curtis Yarvin and Strange Loop”

#106

Post by lukev » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 10:40 PM UTC

It is germane to point out that it isn't simply "political" writing or blogging. Moldbug has several essays that are explicitly racist, and though he would no doubt dispute the relationship, the vocabulary and arguments he uses are virtually the same as those of modern Nazis.

Strangeloop, in the past, has explicitly tried to foster a minority-friendly environment. Many of the other speakers are from minority groups. It's easy to see that having a speaker with Moldbug's history would do irreparable damage to what Alex has been trying to do.

You can still disagree with the decision, but that at least is the context in which it was made. It isn't just that he's politically conservative or holds to some unusual opinion - he has literally written that several of his co-speakers are genetically more fit to be slaves while he, a white male, is genetically designed to be a master.

I don't blame Alex for wanting to avoid that dynamic at his conference.

Call it "culture fit", if you must. Can't he have the culture he wants at his conference?

Re: “A Statement with My View on Curtis Yarvin and Strange Loop”

#107

Post by serf » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 10:45 PM UTC

PopeOfNope wrote: post #85

shalmanese wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of person stereotypes an entire state of 40 million people based on their experiences in one small town?

The kind that uses logic and reason instead of rhetorical appeals to emotion. The 'personal is the political' is part of the culture in california and is common throughout the state. And if you don't believe me, you should go on a job hunt and tell every interviewer who talks to you that you're a republican. Now that I think about it, I want to do just that and document the results. Should be interesting.

I disagree with your idea that other states don't have some sort of pet peeve they will 'dock you points' for.

Go to Austin and look for a job while spouting off right-to-life and anti-gay marriage nonsense.

Go to Houston/Dallas and espouse the opposite opinion.

Go to Washington DC or Virginia and look for a job while being vocally against government involvement in your personal life and the spy state of affairs, or the military industrial complex.

Hell, let's take it further than job acquiring or state scope; ask anyone with lightly browned skin how they were treated nationwide after September 11th.

'personal is the political' is a nationally accepted doctrine, sadly. In my travels I haven't witnessed much different from state to state.

Re: “A Statement with My View on Curtis Yarvin and Strange Loop”

#108

Post by overgard » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 10:49 PM UTC

PopeOfNope wrote: post #89

Afforess wrote: post #34

What outcomes do actions like this encourage? Well, it encourages controversial writers to stay in the shadows, hide their real identities, lest the vigilante mobs find them. This outcome also encourages people in general to say less, creates an atmosphere of self-censorship, and so harms our free society. Whatever happened to "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say i…

> Whatever happened to "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."? Marxism happened. Limiting speech has always been a tactic employed by the political left. Words like "racist", "sexist" and "homophobe" were designed to shut down free speech. It's extremely effective at silencing any opposition.

You're getting unfairly downvoted, but you're right: whether you agree with their ideas or not, the main tactic of the left is to police what topics are "appropriate" and marginalize those who are "inappropriate" with a label. I'm mostly apolitical so I'm not particularly outraged by this, but I wish they'd just own what they do. If they really think their ideas stand up, they should be welcoming opposition rather than trying to silence it.

Re: “A Statement with My View on Curtis Yarvin and Strange Loop”

#109

Post by obstinate » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 10:50 PM UTC

lukev wrote: post #106

It is germane to point out that it isn't simply "political" writing or blogging. Moldbug has several essays that are explicitly racist, and though he would no doubt dispute the relationship, the vocabulary and arguments he uses are virtually the same as those of modern Nazis. Strangeloop, in the past, has explicitly tried to foster a minority-friendly environment. Many of the other speakers are from minority groups.…

Personally I'm cool with conferences banning out-of-the-closet racists from speaking. I guess that makes me the minority on HN. /shrug. So be it.

Re: “A Statement with My View on Curtis Yarvin and Strange Loop”

#110

Post by muglug » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 10:51 PM UTC

Afforess wrote: post #34

What outcomes do actions like this encourage? Well, it encourages controversial writers to stay in the shadows, hide their real identities, lest the vigilante mobs find them. This outcome also encourages people in general to say less, creates an atmosphere of self-censorship, and so harms our free society. Whatever happened to "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say i…

> Whatever happened to "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."?

I'll defend his right to say it, and I'll also defend a conference organiser's right to deny politically-outspoken developers a chance to talk about their (nevertheless interesting) projects.