Apple limits daisychaining of non-Apple displays in OS X • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple limits daisychaining of non-Apple displays in OS X

#21

Post by threeseed » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 1:38 PM UTC

hrrsn wrote: post #19

ecopoesis wrote: post #12

This is pretty simple. Apple does not, and never did, support DisplayPort daisy chaining. The confusion lies in the fact that Apple does support Thunderbolt monitor daisy chaining, and Thunderbolt uses the same port as mini-DisplayPort. That the hardware can support it is irrelevant. Apple hardware can do lots of things that Apple doesn't support or claim their hardware can do. Call it malevance on Apple's part if yo…

This is the correct answer. You can't blame Apple for not supporting a feature they never claimed to support. I don't think there's malicious intent here, rather a lack of demand or awareness.

It's purely lack of demand. You can use dual monitors by either (a) using both MiniDP ports, (b) using one HDMI/MiniDP, (c) using USB/MiniDP. But the OP wants none of those.

Re: Apple limits daisychaining of non-Apple displays in OS X

#22

Post by WorldWideWayne » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 1:40 PM UTC

chx wrote: post #16

Apple is not "intentionally limiting" anything. They simply didn't add MST support to OS X because their hardware doesn't need it. The physical Mini DisplayPort connector on your Mac can operate in two modes, one is DisplayPort itself. In this mode, you can connect a single 4K 60 Hz monitor to your Mac. Or, you can use it in Thunderbolt mode where the displays use the Thunderbolt bus which has two DisplayPort signals…

Your four responses on the stackexchange question and here really convinced me. There is just no way that Apple would ever limit the customer's choice by doing (or not doing) something! Apple's intentions are always pure and I know this because... reasons.

It's kind of like the App Store (on iOS) - they are not intentionally limiting you to one app store, they just didn't add support for other company's app stores.

Re: Apple limits daisychaining of non-Apple displays in OS X

#23

Post by threeseed » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 1:45 PM UTC

WorldWideWayne wrote: post #22

chx wrote: post #16

Apple is not "intentionally limiting" anything. They simply didn't add MST support to OS X because their hardware doesn't need it. The physical Mini DisplayPort connector on your Mac can operate in two modes, one is DisplayPort itself. In this mode, you can connect a single 4K 60 Hz monitor to your Mac. Or, you can use it in Thunderbolt mode where the displays use the Thunderbolt bus which has two DisplayPort signals…

Your four responses on the stackexchange question and here really convinced me. There is just no way that Apple would ever limit the customer's choice by doing (or not doing) something! Apple's intentions are always pure and I know this because... reasons. It's kind of like the App Store (on iOS) - they are not intentionally limiting you to one app store, they just didn't add support for other company's app stores.

Apple is not limiting customer choice. They ship the MBP with 2 x mini DP so you can use dual monitors.

And nothing is stopping anyone running their own App Store on OSX. Mac Update has a sort of one already.

Re: Apple limits daisychaining of non-Apple displays in OS X

#24

Post by chx » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 1:45 PM UTC

WorldWideWayne wrote: post #22

chx wrote: post #16

Apple is not "intentionally limiting" anything. They simply didn't add MST support to OS X because their hardware doesn't need it. The physical Mini DisplayPort connector on your Mac can operate in two modes, one is DisplayPort itself. In this mode, you can connect a single 4K 60 Hz monitor to your Mac. Or, you can use it in Thunderbolt mode where the displays use the Thunderbolt bus which has two DisplayPort signals…

Your four responses on the stackexchange question and here really convinced me. There is just no way that Apple would ever limit the customer's choice by doing (or not doing) something! Apple's intentions are always pure and I know this because... reasons. It's kind of like the App Store (on iOS) - they are not intentionally limiting you to one app store, they just didn't add support for other company's app stores.

Uh don't take me for an Apple apologist ... I am well aware and often advocate of how their business model leads to unfortunately limiting everyone's freedoms. But this one is not one of those, I think.

You shouldn't have bought a Mac in the first place, of course but that cause is seemingly lost. People are not listening to Cory Doctorow so why would they listen to me?

Re: Apple limits daisychaining of non-Apple displays in OS X

#25

Post by DiabloD3 » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 1:47 PM UTC

bshimmin wrote: post #18

Artemis2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a 2560x1440 screen sold for $999. An upgrade with their latest 5K display is overdue.

I just recently bought a couple of Dell U2515H monitors (and will probably buy another), and, given you can buy three of them for the cost of one of Apple's Thunderbolt displays, they really are a great deal - same resolution, higher PPI, more adjustable and rotatable, and they're matte. My Apple Thunderbolt display has from day one had some light leakage in the lower right corner, and the ethernet port stopped worki…

I hate to say this, but the U2414H is a better monitor. Zero processing latency (not 1 frame, not half of a frame, but real world measured latency of less than 1 ms; virtually all of the gamer monitors out there are at least 1 frame and the only ones that get I have three on my desk.

Re: Apple limits daisychaining of non-Apple displays in OS X

#26

Post by DiabloD3 » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 1:50 PM UTC

evadne wrote: post #6

http://multimonitorcomputer.com/solved/dell-u2414h-displaypo... ?

I own three U2414Hs. This is clearly outlined in the manual and also on the quick start sheet that was in the top of the box when you opened it.

I've tested it, it works fine.

Re: Apple limits daisychaining of non-Apple displays in OS X

#27

Post by DiabloD3 » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 1:52 PM UTC

I'm not sure why this hit the front page of HN this way.

Thunderbolt does not implement MST chaining (because it conflicts with Thunderbolt chaining; someone out there is going to try to chain a Thunderbolt device into a Displayport device and wonder why Thunderbolt functionality doesn't work but the display part does, essentially. Apple doesn't want to deal with this shit.)

However, the last device in a Thunderbolt chain can be a standard non-MST Displayport monitor, this IS supported afaik.

Re: Apple limits daisychaining of non-Apple displays in OS X

#28

Post by bshimmin » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 1:53 PM UTC

DiabloD3 wrote: post #25

bshimmin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just recently bought a couple of Dell U2515H monitors (and will probably buy another), and, given you can buy three of them for the cost of one of Apple's Thunderbolt displays, they really are a great deal - same resolution, higher PPI, more adjustable and rotatable, and they're matte. My Apple Thunderbolt display has from day one had some light leakage in the lower right corner, and the ethernet port stopped worki…

I hate to say this, but the U2414H is a better monitor. Zero processing latency (not 1 frame, not half of a frame, but real world measured latency of less than 1 ms; virtually all of the gamer monitors out there are at least 1 frame and the only ones that get I have three on my desk.

It's 1920x1080, though, right? The U2515H is 2560x1440. That difference is far more important to me than a few milliseconds of latency (I don't play games).

Re: Apple limits daisychaining of non-Apple displays in OS X

#29

Post by UnoriginalGuy » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 2:02 PM UTC

I really hope Apple reads that feedback form. Safari on iOS has a broken Content Security Policy for the font-src (namely 'self' isn't working) and I am getting flooded with false reports.

When I google it I only find an unanswered post on Stackoverflow: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/29417735/content-security...

Do so few people use content security policy? How did this go unnoticed for so long?

Re: Apple limits daisychaining of non-Apple displays in OS X

#30

Post by izacus » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 2:04 PM UTC

hrrsn wrote: post #19

ecopoesis wrote: post #12

This is pretty simple. Apple does not, and never did, support DisplayPort daisy chaining. The confusion lies in the fact that Apple does support Thunderbolt monitor daisy chaining, and Thunderbolt uses the same port as mini-DisplayPort. That the hardware can support it is irrelevant. Apple hardware can do lots of things that Apple doesn't support or claim their hardware can do. Call it malevance on Apple's part if yo…

This is the correct answer. You can't blame Apple for not supporting a feature they never claimed to support. I don't think there's malicious intent here, rather a lack of demand or awareness.

I can easilty blame Apple for locking out functionality that underlying hardware supports though. Especially when it's essentially functionality handled by the hardware layer and drivers not written by Apple at all.