Preferences for Trains vs. Buses • Hacker News Board

Re: Preferences for Trains vs. Buses

#21

Post by vacri » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 3:07 AM UTC

The scenes are remarkably similar. This train travels in the same dedicated lane and even has the same style. The only real difference you'll find, if you look very close, is the faint sign of tracks on the ground.

The faint sign of tracks on the ground... and that the tram is 50% longer than the bus. That's not minor. It's crazy that they went to the extent of designing the bus and the tram to look identical, then just lobbed on another 50% length to the rail.

There are also experiential differences between bus and tram, at least here in my city (which has the most heavily-trammed road in the world). A tram pulls up, and punters can get on from a variety of doors. A bus pulls up, and you can only get on at the front, and have to shuffle your way down the vehicle. Buses are usually a lot more cramped as well - few buses handle a stroller well, though some of the newer ones do.

In any case, if you're running your buses like trams, with their own dedicated lane and so forth... then you may as well turn them into rail vehicles, because they're cheaper to run (both in maintenance and wages) and service more people. Of the two images presented, each vehicle has one driver, but the tram carries 50% more folks.

Re: Preferences for Trains vs. Buses

#22

Post by coldtea » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 3:09 AM UTC

baldfat wrote: post #13

robotcookies wrote: post #6

People do in general prefer trains over buses. This article is basically just saying that as you make the buses more train-like by giving them dedicated lanes and more reliability, people start to like buses more. Make them longer (articulated), faster, with dedicated lanes, and basically they start to become like a train with rubber tires. I think that is in fact, confirming people like trains better. Titles do matt…

Boses have traffic. People don't like traffic. Trains don't have traffic.

One basic idea in TFA is that you can have buses in their own lanes that don't have traffic.

Re: Preferences for Trains vs. Buses

#23

Post by vacri » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 3:10 AM UTC

baldfat wrote: post #13

robotcookies wrote: post #6

People do in general prefer trains over buses. This article is basically just saying that as you make the buses more train-like by giving them dedicated lanes and more reliability, people start to like buses more. Make them longer (articulated), faster, with dedicated lanes, and basically they start to become like a train with rubber tires. I think that is in fact, confirming people like trains better. Titles do matt…

Boses have traffic. People don't like traffic. Trains don't have traffic.

Light rail frequently has traffic. This being said, buses have an advantage when they do - if there's an accident or the transit vehicle in front has a patron in need of an ambulance, a bus can usually go around it. Light rail has to wait.

Re: Preferences for Trains vs. Buses

#24

Post by vacri » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 3:14 AM UTC

Zigurd wrote: post #16

I have taken a "first class" bus from Framingham to New York. It was less reliable than Amtrak. "less reliable than Amtrak" Takes some doing.

As a tourist who missed his Amtrak train by minutes in Pittsburgh, I headed over to the bus station. I had no idea you could basically use your train ticket as a bus ticket, and I didn't even finish the sentence "Hi there, I missed my train..." before the teller took my ticket out of my hands and converted it into a bus ticket. A nice surprise - I was expecting to have to do a little cajoling, but I didn't even get a chance to say boo. :) (the bus ride was less than pleasant, though...)

Re: Preferences for Trains vs. Buses

#25

Post by Mister_Snuggles » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 3:15 AM UTC

archagon wrote: post #12

Mister_Snuggles wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always, it depends. Some transit systems are better than others, and some routes are better than others. I've recently started taking the bus to work and have found that most of the routes keep to their schedule quite well. The local transit system is also rolling out smart bus technology which, among other things, provides real-time location information on each bus. This is available online and through the transi…

Oh, that reminds me: there's also the creeping paranoia that your bus could get there early and leave you behind. I have never had this happen with a train, but I routinely see busses barreling past the stop. And when a route has dozens of stops, you just know the driver isn't checking their clock at every one. But yeah, smart buses are a great improvement. I love bus stops where they actually tell you how much time…

This, too, depends on the transit system, etc, and also your experience using transit.

My bus, for example, runs every 5 minutes during peak hours. If I miss it I either walk to the next stop, which is a transit centre, or just wait. In fact, I've frequently watched the bus turn the corner and pass my stop while I've been walking there.

I'm pretty sure that the proximity to a transit centre is a major reason that my experience with the bus has been so good. Not to mention working in a place that is accessible without transfering to a different route.

Someone who isn't near a transit centre and/or doesn't work downtown, at least in my city, will have a much worse time. My girlfriend, for example, used to like 8km away from her work (about a 10 minute drive) needed to take three different buses and an hour and a half to do the same trip by transit.

Re: Preferences for Trains vs. Buses

#26

Post by _puk » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 3:20 AM UTC

qzcx wrote: post #5

Most train systems I've taken don't have to stop at stop lights, but the buses I've ridden, even with a dedicated lane, still stop at the lights. This means twice as many stops and starts. Big negative in my mind. But then again, maybe this is another small improvement which could be made.

The stop lights for a train are scheduled such that the train doesn't need to stop if it is keeping to the schedule. This works on both smaller and larger lines.

The stop lights for a bus are scheduled in line with the general car population, so it's pretty hard for the bus to keep to its schedule. There's a lot of work goes into timing traffic lights (for cars), how much of that thought process involves keeping the number 49 on time?

Re: Preferences for Trains vs. Buses

#27

Post by dang » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 3:30 AM UTC

robotcookies wrote: post #6

People do in general prefer trains over buses. This article is basically just saying that as you make the buses more train-like by giving them dedicated lanes and more reliability, people start to like buses more. Make them longer (articulated), faster, with dedicated lanes, and basically they start to become like a train with rubber tires. I think that is in fact, confirming people like trains better. Titles do matt…

Happy to change the title if you or anyone can suggest one that is accurate and neutral.

Edit: Ok, we took a crack at it. Can change it again if anyone has a better idea.

Re: Preferences for Trains vs. Buses

#28

Post by ianlevesque » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 3:38 AM UTC

giancarlostoro wrote: post #17

baldfat wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boses have traffic. People don't like traffic. Trains don't have traffic.

I've had to wait in a train for over 30 minutes due to another train passing by. I guess it depends where you're at.

Sounds like Amtrak, lower priority than freight and using ancient tracks.

Re: Preferences for Trains vs. Buses

#29

Post by mistermann » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 4:03 AM UTC

louisphilippe wrote: post #19

There is a catch-22 with buses. Buses would be a lot better if cities had congestion pricing that could greatly reduce traffic delays. Buses would also be a lot better if there were more routes and better frequency. But people oppose congestion pricing because it would make commutes much more expensive for the poor. But if you actually had it, then the bus would be a much more feasible form of transportation, because…

> congestion pricing

Is that a surcharge for being on certain roads at certain times of the day? It's a good idea if it could be undertaken in a somewhat fair way, are there any well thought out theories that you know of?

Re: Preferences for Trains vs. Buses

#30

Post by heimatau » Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 4:14 AM UTC

Macha wrote: post #20

Can only speak from the experience of my own country, but in Ireland This is the inside of a bus: http://www.cityswifty.com/SC241interior1.JPG This is the inside of a train: https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2831/9337782850_41264e4fd4_b.j... That should say it all as to why people like trains more.

I honestly like both. Better than many buses I've been on. USA here. Namely Florida and Colorado.