Apple Is the New Pimco • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Is the New Pimco

#21

Post by czinck » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 6:56 PM UTC

return0 wrote: post #15

traskjd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Braeburn Capital (awesome name IMO) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braeburn_Capital

OK then where does braeburn keep its cash, in banks? Afaik, you practically lose money by keeping it in banks.

When people talk about a company having "cash" they don't mean a stack of $100 bills, it just refers to any low-risk and liquid asset. US Treasury notes are by far the most common. As to where they keep that paper, there's far less of it and it probably goes in a vault somewhere. I remember that being an issue post-Sandy that banks vaults where they kept a lot of bonds were flooded.

Re: Apple Is the New Pimco

#22

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 7:00 PM UTC

twoodfin wrote: post #11

oceanstone wrote: post #10

> Apple, Oracle, Google Inc. and seven of their biggest peers now have in excess of $500 billion of cash and marketable securities, up more than three-fold since 2008, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The problem is much of it is stuck overseas. Stuck overseas in the sense that these corporations aren't willing to pay American taxes [1], insisting on using complex tax loopholes that essentially leave the bill…

Stuck overseas in the sense that corporations aren't willing to pay American taxes... Why should Apple pay American taxes on the profits from a product manufactured in China and sold in Germany? (Albeit "Designed in California"!)

[deleted]

Re: Apple Is the New Pimco

#23

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 7:02 PM UTC

twoodfin wrote: post #11

oceanstone wrote: post #10

> Apple, Oracle, Google Inc. and seven of their biggest peers now have in excess of $500 billion of cash and marketable securities, up more than three-fold since 2008, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The problem is much of it is stuck overseas. Stuck overseas in the sense that these corporations aren't willing to pay American taxes [1], insisting on using complex tax loopholes that essentially leave the bill…

Stuck overseas in the sense that corporations aren't willing to pay American taxes... Why should Apple pay American taxes on the profits from a product manufactured in China and sold in Germany? (Albeit "Designed in California"!)

[deleted]

Re: Apple Is the New Pimco

#24

Post by whatok » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 7:03 PM UTC

chollida1 wrote: post #2

> Getting allocations of corporate bond deals is one of the easiest ways for managers to outperform benchmark bond indexes because they’re typically sold at a discount to market rates, according to Jason Shoup, the head of U.S. high-grade credit strategy at Citigroup Inc. The bonds aren’t added to the indexes investors are measured against until the end of each month. That can generate as much as 0.2 percentage point…

New issues are not always free money. Seen many deals over the past few years get torpedoed by pricing way too tight or complete garbage allocations. Even seeing some recent IG issues widening a decent amount soon after issuance.

Re: Apple Is the New Pimco

#25

Post by jusben1369 » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 7:03 PM UTC

twoodfin wrote: post #11

oceanstone wrote: post #10

> Apple, Oracle, Google Inc. and seven of their biggest peers now have in excess of $500 billion of cash and marketable securities, up more than three-fold since 2008, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The problem is much of it is stuck overseas. Stuck overseas in the sense that these corporations aren't willing to pay American taxes [1], insisting on using complex tax loopholes that essentially leave the bill…

Stuck overseas in the sense that corporations aren't willing to pay American taxes... Why should Apple pay American taxes on the profits from a product manufactured in China and sold in Germany? (Albeit "Designed in California"!)

Errr because they're headquartered in the US and rely on the shield of the US government when it comes to rule of law, educating their workforce, providing the infrastructure etc for them to be in the position where they are today? In this day and age it makes _less_ sense to try and tax based on where componentry or network services or consumers start or finish.

Re: Apple Is the New Pimco

#26

Post by adam419 » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 7:06 PM UTC

sbov wrote: post #19

twoodfin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuck overseas in the sense that corporations aren't willing to pay American taxes... Why should Apple pay American taxes on the profits from a product manufactured in China and sold in Germany? (Albeit "Designed in California"!)

Why should Apple be able to pay Irish taxes on a product designed in California, manufactured in China, and sold in Germany. It makes even less sense.

Because Apple et al can put the extra capital to better use than the united states government.

Re: Apple Is the New Pimco

#27

Post by cmsmith » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 7:07 PM UTC

oceanstone wrote: post #10

> Apple, Oracle, Google Inc. and seven of their biggest peers now have in excess of $500 billion of cash and marketable securities, up more than three-fold since 2008, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The problem is much of it is stuck overseas. Stuck overseas in the sense that these corporations aren't willing to pay American taxes [1], insisting on using complex tax loopholes that essentially leave the bill…

And the corporations only hold out for a repatriation holiday because there has been one in the past, and there is a decent chance of there being one in the near future. This is a slippery legislative cliff - once you indicate a willingness to have the holiday, there is no point in not just dropping the tax rate permanently since no one will bring their billions in otherwise.

I wonder what would happen if we passed an un-repealable law (if such a thing existed) that prohibited tax holidays for the next thirty years?

Re: Apple Is the New Pimco

#28

Post by larrys » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 7:13 PM UTC

chollida1 wrote: post #2

> Getting allocations of corporate bond deals is one of the easiest ways for managers to outperform benchmark bond indexes because they’re typically sold at a discount to market rates, according to Jason Shoup, the head of U.S. high-grade credit strategy at Citigroup Inc. The bonds aren’t added to the indexes investors are measured against until the end of each month. That can generate as much as 0.2 percentage point…

"Steve Cohen at SAC was famous for overpaying on commissions "

After a real estate deal last year I bought the broker a gift and delivered it. He said "wow shouldn't I be buying you the gift?". No problem because the next time I was the person he called first when he got a fresh listing on a commercial investment property which I was able to buy at a much lower price per sf than if he had actually taken the effort to shop it around or keep the listing active. People respond amazing predictably even if they think of themselves as highly ethical. They tend to remember the people who treat them well and appreciate their efforts.

In this context a small gift (what I am describing) also isn't necessarily a bribe. It is an "advertisement" that makes the person that you are giving the gift to remember you and to call you when they have "a good deal".

It all depends on the relationship. It is often the case in business that instead of thinking solely about the costs (or commissions) that it definitely pays to be someone's good customer and allow them to make money from you.

Re: Apple Is the New Pimco

#29

Post by minthd » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 7:13 PM UTC

cmsmith wrote: post #27

oceanstone wrote: post #10

> Apple, Oracle, Google Inc. and seven of their biggest peers now have in excess of $500 billion of cash and marketable securities, up more than three-fold since 2008, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The problem is much of it is stuck overseas. Stuck overseas in the sense that these corporations aren't willing to pay American taxes [1], insisting on using complex tax loopholes that essentially leave the bill…

And the corporations only hold out for a repatriation holiday because there has been one in the past, and there is a decent chance of there being one in the near future. This is a slippery legislative cliff - once you indicate a willingness to have the holiday, there is no point in not just dropping the tax rate permanently since no one will bring their billions in otherwise. I wonder what would happen if we passed a…

If they use their money to purchase other companies or invest in r&d , this isn't taxed, right ?

Re: Apple Is the New Pimco

#30

Post by ryandrake » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 7:13 PM UTC

twoodfin wrote: post #11

oceanstone wrote: post #10

> Apple, Oracle, Google Inc. and seven of their biggest peers now have in excess of $500 billion of cash and marketable securities, up more than three-fold since 2008, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The problem is much of it is stuck overseas. Stuck overseas in the sense that these corporations aren't willing to pay American taxes [1], insisting on using complex tax loopholes that essentially leave the bill…

Stuck overseas in the sense that corporations aren't willing to pay American taxes... Why should Apple pay American taxes on the profits from a product manufactured in China and sold in Germany? (Albeit "Designed in California"!)

Why not? If I, as a US Citizen, moved to China or Germany to work there, I still owe US taxes on my income there.