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A beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

bbc.co.uk

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Re: A beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

#41

Post by astrobe_ »

kstenerud wrote: post #22
hudstew wrote: post #19

There are a few things to keep in mind: 1) Ariana Miyamoto was chosen as Miss Japan by Japanese people. 2) The critics of Miyamoto are an extreme, vocal minority on Twitter and 2chan. 3) Although Japanese contestants often perform well at the international level, beauty pageants of this sort do not receive much attention within the country regardless of the contestant. 4) "Hafu" is a Japanese word derived from the En…

Yes, let's forget about all the nightclubs I couldn't go into, being physically barred by guards outside holding their crossed arms, saying "gaijin dame!". Let's forget about the complete lack of upward mobility in any office I worked in. Let's forget about the neighbors who completely shunned me until it was my turn as the block representative, at which point they criticized my lack of understanding of the bureaucra…

Racism of xenophobia? Do you know why they behave this way? I this because they think they are superior, or because they believe that no good can come from aliens? Or because the way they generally behave is embarrassing and unpleasant to them?

Re: A beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

#42

Post by droque »

jpatokal wrote: post #3

> There is no word like hafu outside Japan, but I think we need it here. Welp, she's Japanese alright, she's even mastered nihonjinron : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihonjinron But more or less the same concept elsewhere: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hapa (Hawaiian, and another loan from the English "half") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luk_khrueng (Thai for "half child") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%BAnxu%C…

While it means mixed, at least in Mexico the concept carries a different connotation. Rather than being an outsider, it's the national identity. See for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_de_las_Tres_Culturas

Re: A beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

#43

Post by Nadya »

This is only just now making BBC news? This took place ages ago.

It's not uncommon for vocal minorities (ie. nationalists who take some pride in being "pure" to their race. Not necessarily in a "nazi like" way) to speak up when a "half" wins a contest that is supposed to represent them as a people. If you read through the comments on this thread you'll find several other examples from different nations about this very same problem.

How can you say a 50% Japanese person represents a 100% Japanese person? They are not representative of a 'Japanese person' if they are not fully Japanese!

That is the logic of the nationalists. Does it sound racist? Yes. Is it racist? To most people, probably... especially to PC-minded liberals. Do I consider it racist? Not really, but it brings a host of its own problems regarding these sorts of contests.

How would a ハフ compete in beauty contests? Would there be "African-Japanese" classification? What about people who are a mix of 3 races? 4 races? Do we have to do genetic fingerprinting? Would it be based on a majority of which race you are?

Who cares if she was "selected by Japanese people"? A democratic vote does not guarantee 100% of the people agree with the decision. Let's say she won with a 95% approval rating. That means 5% of the people who voted are either unhappy or neutral that she won. If that 5% is vocal of their disapproval... that's to be expected? Her being selected by Japanese people for the contest does not mean there won't be a vocal minority opposed to it.

Re: A beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

#44

Post by yuncun »

jrs99 wrote: post #39
orthoganol wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, don't base it on the 'vocal minority', rather base it on the everyday experiences of Gaijins living in Japan: It's an extremely racist, xenophobic society, on a tier higher than the United States. Racism is deeply integrated into the average man's world view in ways that it is not in 21st century America. TBH it's not that different from Korea or China in general, countries I've also lived in. Those 3 nations (o…

Are you also a minority in the US? Did you live in different areas in the US? Were you physically attacked because of your race or sexual orientation in Japan? Because if you're going by "casual daily encounters" that seem racist to you, do you ever wonder if a minority in 21st century america experiences the same?

I'm Chinese, I live in Kentucky. People are wonderful here. I've also lived in Los Angeles - never had a problem, but I did meet lots of second+ generation immigrants who complained a lot about perceived racism, that were really just small things that come with cultural differences. To be honest I find that white Americans are mostly much more self conscious about saying something offensive than Asians would be.

Maybe I have to go further south, or be more homosexual or something, but I haven't experienced the hardcore racism you're describing.

Re: A beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

#45

Post by scottlocklin »

hudstew wrote: post #19

There are a few things to keep in mind: 1) Ariana Miyamoto was chosen as Miss Japan by Japanese people. 2) The critics of Miyamoto are an extreme, vocal minority on Twitter and 2chan. 3) Although Japanese contestants often perform well at the international level, beauty pageants of this sort do not receive much attention within the country regardless of the contestant. 4) "Hafu" is a Japanese word derived from the En…

"1) Ariana Miyamoto was chosen as Miss Japan by Japanese people."

No, Ariana Miyamoto was chosen as "Miss Universe Japan" by a fashion company called HDR Japan. http://www.missuniversejapan3.com/about-us/

Nobody in Japan has ever heard of this.

Re: A beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

#46

Post by octatoan »

MtrL wrote: post #35
RobAley wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A common, although often derogatory, term here in the UK is "half cast" for people (kids in particular) of mixed race.

It's actually half-caste, caste being an Indian term relating to position in society as far I'm in aware.

You're correct.

Re: A beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

#47

Post by Nadya »

kstenerud wrote: post #22
hudstew wrote: post #19

There are a few things to keep in mind: 1) Ariana Miyamoto was chosen as Miss Japan by Japanese people. 2) The critics of Miyamoto are an extreme, vocal minority on Twitter and 2chan. 3) Although Japanese contestants often perform well at the international level, beauty pageants of this sort do not receive much attention within the country regardless of the contestant. 4) "Hafu" is a Japanese word derived from the En…

Yes, let's forget about all the nightclubs I couldn't go into, being physically barred by guards outside holding their crossed arms, saying "gaijin dame!". Let's forget about the complete lack of upward mobility in any office I worked in. Let's forget about the neighbors who completely shunned me until it was my turn as the block representative, at which point they criticized my lack of understanding of the bureaucra…

Strange how much our experiences differ.

People in the countryside were far more 'racist' to me. I went to parts of the country where they rarely, if ever, see an 'outsider'. I would be stared at by wide-eyed children and shocked elders alike. I would be pointed at and noticed because I was different. In the city, I experienced none of this. I put 'racist' in quotes because, although I felt like an attraction, it wasn't a bad or biased opinion of me. It was simply "That's a rare sight! Look over there, a foreigner!"

"Gaijin" don't tend to know social norms. That's a fact. Some do, most don't. It's easier to ban them all then have to kick out 95% of them. They cause problems because of said lack of knowledge of social norms. Why deal with problems? It might lose you customers. It's much easier to ban any and all foreigners.

Same reason you can't go to many bathhouses if you have a tattoo. Having a tattoo is seen as being part of the Yakuza and Yakuza are nothing but trouble. So instead of kicking out Yakuza, they don't allow people with tattoos. Are you Yakuza because you have a tattoo? Of course not. It's just easier to ban tattoos preemptively to prevent problems.

Re: A beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

#48

Post by fatjokes »

orthoganol wrote: post #31
hudstew wrote: post #19

There are a few things to keep in mind: 1) Ariana Miyamoto was chosen as Miss Japan by Japanese people. 2) The critics of Miyamoto are an extreme, vocal minority on Twitter and 2chan. 3) Although Japanese contestants often perform well at the international level, beauty pageants of this sort do not receive much attention within the country regardless of the contestant. 4) "Hafu" is a Japanese word derived from the En…

Yes, don't base it on the 'vocal minority', rather base it on the everyday experiences of Gaijins living in Japan: It's an extremely racist, xenophobic society, on a tier higher than the United States. Racism is deeply integrated into the average man's world view in ways that it is not in 21st century America. TBH it's not that different from Korea or China in general, countries I've also lived in. Those 3 nations (o…

I'm guessing you're not a minority in the US, if you think that Japan's racism is a tier higher than the US.

I get that Asia can be pretty racist, but until they start imprisoning minorities disproportionately, or implementing policies like stop-and-frisk, or allowing police to shoot unarmed minorities, then let's just step back for a minute. Not being allowed into a club or getting dirty looks from your local girlfriend's family sucks, but let's not pretend they're on the same level.

Re: A beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

#49

Post by kstenerud »

astrobe_ wrote: post #41
kstenerud wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, let's forget about all the nightclubs I couldn't go into, being physically barred by guards outside holding their crossed arms, saying "gaijin dame!". Let's forget about the complete lack of upward mobility in any office I worked in. Let's forget about the neighbors who completely shunned me until it was my turn as the block representative, at which point they criticized my lack of understanding of the bureaucra…

Racism of xenophobia? Do you know why they behave this way? I this because they think they are superior, or because they believe that no good can come from aliens? Or because the way they generally behave is embarrassing and unpleasant to them?

It's actually fairly similar to the racism I noticed when I moved to America, although in the USA, in many ways it's more subtle (it would be rare indeed to see someone physically block entrance to a business saying "no blacks allowed!"). Although in Japan, they don't use their police force to repress other groups like here (at least, not that I noticed).

I'm of the opinion that it's a mix of various insecurities, fear of displacement (in terms of power), and stereotypes based on past high-profile interactions that have percolated through the local culture. For example, there is a segment of expats in Japan who, being largely transient, pay no heed to their impact on the local culture, and in more extreme cases, take to actively antagonizing them (trolling or bullying in various forms). I would expect episodes like this to stick more firmly in the local memory than the myriad well-behaved individuals.

That's not to say that I rule out the possibility of a fragile ego and a desire to feel superior. Those tend to go hand-in-hand with any form of tribalism.

Re: A beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

#50

Post by jboy »

jpatokal wrote: post #3

> There is no word like hafu outside Japan, but I think we need it here. Welp, she's Japanese alright, she's even mastered nihonjinron : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihonjinron But more or less the same concept elsewhere: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hapa (Hawaiian, and another loan from the English "half") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luk_khrueng (Thai for "half child") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%BAnxu%C…

Here in Sydney, Australia, the term "halvie" seems to be relatively common amongst those who discuss such things. It's not considered derogatory or offensive; at worst, slightly unsubtle or socially inept (like any labelling of a person by their race). Friends use the term lightly or playfully.

Australia is a predominantly-white country that is geographically closer to Asia than to any other white or Western countries. We have a long history of Chinese immigration.

Sydney, especially inner-city Sydney and the areas around the four major universities, have large proportions of predominantly-Asian international students, many of whom later settle here. White-Asian interracial dating is very common in Sydney. Especially at the universities amongst students in the Science, Engineering (including Computer Science, of course) and Business schools. And so, there are an increasing number of "halvies" being born...

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