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Let Snowden Come Home

newyorker.com

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Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#251

Post by djloche »

hueving wrote: post #24
austinhutch wrote: post #6

If he were to come back to the USA and then subsequently be detained, I would join the hopefully overwhelming protests in favor of his release. I am hoping if such a time comes, that there will be a historic level of demonstration advocating for his freedom.

>I would join the hopefully overwhelming protests in favor of his release. All 12 of us would be fired up! More seriously, did you see the bit on John Oliver about Snowden? The majority of the US population have no idea who Snowden is. Be careful not to get caught up in our tech news bubble.

It is really the issue of large numbers. ~320M people. You could have 2 million person march through DC and demand an immunity EO for Snowden and it wouldn't represent even 1% of the population.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#252

Post by binxbolling »

eli wrote: post #11

Perhaps a minority opinion, but I believe the NSA vastly overstepped and that they need to be reined in (much further than what the USA Freedom Act contains)... but also that Snowden probably should face charges. Snowden is charged with "willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person," which -- I think sensibly -- is illegal even if the unauthorized person is a r…

Most major social or democratic change depends on illegal activity. And the powers that be almost always appeal to the almighty Rule of Law. Later generations then look back with scorn at the dutiful law abiding folk who dramatically impeded progress. To me, looking to charge & punish Snowden is simply inviting scorn from our children and grandchildren who will see with more clarity what we today cannot. Personally, I'm grateful that so many people throughout history—even people I don't generally like—have broken the law so that we all might benefit.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#253

Post by dllthomas »

mortehu wrote: post #89
hueving wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I would join the hopefully overwhelming protests in favor of his release. All 12 of us would be fired up! More seriously, did you see the bit on John Oliver about Snowden? The majority of the US population have no idea who Snowden is. Be careful not to get caught up in our tech news bubble.

I think the being known to a majority of the US population is a way too high bar. In a 2010 poll[1], only 59% knew the name of the vice president, as mentioned in a Greenwald article[2] about this issue. 1. http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-s... 2. https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/04/06/john-oliver-in...

This isn't new, incidentally. "I wonder how many of you here tonight remember Hubert Humphrey, he used to be a Senator."

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#254

Post by Codephene »

ytdht wrote: post #213
Callmenorm wrote: post #134

Can we start a white house petition? Is that a thing that make a difference?

Like this one that one never answered: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow... ?

That one may be obsolete by now... Here is another: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/give-presidential-...

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#255

Post by x5n1 »

austinhutch wrote: post #6

If he were to come back to the USA and then subsequently be detained, I would join the hopefully overwhelming protests in favor of his release. I am hoping if such a time comes, that there will be a historic level of demonstration advocating for his freedom.

yes because that actually works in the US. /s

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#256

Post by x5n1 »

3327 wrote: post #247
austinhutch wrote: post #6

If he were to come back to the USA and then subsequently be detained, I would join the hopefully overwhelming protests in favor of his release. I am hoping if such a time comes, that there will be a historic level of demonstration advocating for his freedom.

I would not. I am American and despite the fact that what I think he did was right, the manner he did it was wrong. Domestic Spying is NOT OK. International Spying IS OK. He released dozens of files regarding international spying. Setting US efforts back dozens of years, endangering lives of US assets. Sorry to say but that is treason. Treason has a price.

Yes you just need an agreement with one of the five eyes and international spying becomes domestic spying.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#257

Post by aagha »

Though others have mentioned it, the fundamental issue is that the 1917 Espionage Act [0] basically provides Snowden no options. Despite the fact that he uncovered ILLEGAL government actions, he's subject to being tried as a spy, not a whistle-blower, which I think he clearly is.

0 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#258

Post by dllthomas »

aerique wrote: post #62
tosser-004 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many, many more people view him as a traitor for exposing legal foreign intelligence programs. He obviously did it for what he thought were valid reasons, but that does make it right.

Actually, it is right what he did. Given how much dirt has been exposed do you really think there was another way to do this? What Snowden did is a prime example of civil disobedience: sometimes a country needs to be called out on what it's doing is wrong, no matter what the laws say. That said, whistleblowers are in for a rough time and usually get acknowledged for what they did when they're either too old or dead.

The strongest signal an organization can send that it's doing good is to treat well those who, in good conscience, dissent.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#259

Post by dllthomas »

eli wrote: post #11

Perhaps a minority opinion, but I believe the NSA vastly overstepped and that they need to be reined in (much further than what the USA Freedom Act contains)... but also that Snowden probably should face charges. Snowden is charged with "willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person," which -- I think sensibly -- is illegal even if the unauthorized person is a r…

I think that Snowden quite clearly broke the law, but that he was probably operating in good conscience, and deserves to be pardoned.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#260

Post by spacehome »

grey-area wrote: post #142
tzs wrote: post #130

There was an interesting comment on Reddit pointing out some things often overlooked in these discussions [1]. People seem to forget that he leaked information on both illegal and legal foreign spying (which is what the NSA is supposed to be doing). The former is arguably whistleblowing, but the latter is not. Even Greenwald and Binney admit this. See the reddit comment for details and links to sources. Particularly…

There's a distinction between legally wrong and morally wrong, Snowden makes that distinction I think, whereas you seem to think that the NSA's actions being defined as legal makes them ok. It doesn't.

> There's a distinction between legally wrong and morally wrong.

A distinction? Hell, there's practically no overlap.

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