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Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

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Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#311

Post by gwu78 »

threatofrain wrote: post #170

Apple collects tons of user data, and I'm sure they use some of it to provide machine-learning backed services, and I'm sure they'll come out with much nicer products to compete with Google in the future, also enhanced by machine learning techniques. The difference that Tim Cook wants you to believe in is that Apple doesn't directly make money from your data, they just use it to improve their product; alternatively,…

"Apple collects tons of user data..."

I gateway all my devices through one computer running a stripped down kernel. Through this host I monitor all attempted network connections. I block ads and of course this means I block Apple.

Apple devices are like beacons, attempting to contact a variety of Apple servers from the moment you turn them on and continuing to "phone home" incessantly 24/7 until you turn them off. That is only one example, but to me it is the most egregious.

Apple's competititors are no better. Do users really believe that one of these companies is going to protect them?

When the owner of a Chromecast plugs it in for the first time it tries to connect to Google to patch itself and prevent the owner from jailbreaking.

Perhaps my favourite was this patent application from Apple, with the CEO as a listed inventor.

http://www.google.com/patents/US20090265214

As for "providing advertisers with guided access to your eyeball" I believe that is what the App Store system does; it lets the app developers do the providing by embedding advertising into applications (cf. operating system, as in the above application).

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#312

Post by coned88 »

gwu78 wrote: post #311
threatofrain wrote: post #170

Apple collects tons of user data, and I'm sure they use some of it to provide machine-learning backed services, and I'm sure they'll come out with much nicer products to compete with Google in the future, also enhanced by machine learning techniques. The difference that Tim Cook wants you to believe in is that Apple doesn't directly make money from your data, they just use it to improve their product; alternatively,…

"Apple collects tons of user data..." I gateway all my devices through one computer running a stripped down kernel. Through this host I monitor all attempted network connections. I block ads and of course this means I block Apple. Apple devices are like beacons, attempting to contact a variety of Apple servers from the moment you turn them on and continuing to "phone home" incessantly 24/7 until you turn them off. Th…

> I gateway all my devices through one computer running a stripped down kernel. Through this host I monitor all network connections. I block ads and of course this means I block Apple.

Do you do this always via a vpn or something or was it just to try it out?

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#313

Post by stephenr »

ceejayoz wrote: post #308
stephenr wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

everyone seeing the same results for the same search terms is inherently not a "bubble"

Sure it is. Everyone's exposed to the "average" person's top 10 or so results. With personalized results, potentially millions of different pages are exposed as the top 10 or so results depending on who's searching. You get stuff that's a little more relevant to your usual interests, which places you in your own bubble, but IMO that's better than everyone in the world being in the same shared bubble.

> Sure it is.

I don't think you understand the term "search bubble". It's a bubble because you're cut off from the rest of the world, like the boy in the bubble.

The only way everyone getting the same results is a "bubble" is if you consider us living within the atmosphere of Earth as being in a "bubble".

> You get stuff that's a little more relevant to your usual interests

Did you even read the linked page?

Claiming that getting results that are in-line with your pre-disposed ideas (which are expressed through the profile Google/etc have of you) is like claiming that a board of directors full of yes-men is a great recipe for success.

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#314

Post by stephenr »

sangnoir wrote: post #302
weland wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what privacy means. When I'm dancing naked in my house, I don't care if the guy holding the IR camera across the road is a government employee or a company's employee. All I care is that he has a camera. If some private data of mine (including, but not limited to pictures of my genitalia) ended up someplace other than on a medium I own, that data is no longer private. I.e. it was a privacy breach.

This is exactly what "Apple-is-better" people on this thread do not get. They are suggesting that the Apple IR camera is good because it improves the user "experience by syncing with itunes to play a song with the right tempo as you dance" as opposed to the Google IR camera which will result in sun-burn cream ads. What the typical person would want is no IR camera at all.

Apple collects far less personal data than Google/etc. In this stupid analogy, Apple don't even have an IR camera.

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#315

Post by dragonwriter »

stephenr wrote: post #278
ceejayoz wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That isn't a good thing. http://dontbubble.us I don't get the argument being presented there. In either situation, some information is visible, and other information is buried. Presenting the same top results to everyone is just as bad of a bubble.

everyone seeing the same results for the same search terms is inherently not a "bubble"

> everyone seeing the same results for the same search terms is inherently not a "bubble"

Sure it is; the difference is its a search-provider-specific bubble, rather than a user-specific bubble. Both isolate you from information which exists and potentially distort your view of reality.

Its analogous to the difference provided by the information bubbles provided from the (highly-selective, often-biased-in-the-same-way, rather homogenous) mainstream media in the pre-internet era and those provided by the much more heterogenous, audience-specific online media outlets from which people increasingly get news today.

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#316

Post by ceejayoz »

stephenr wrote: post #313
ceejayoz wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it is. Everyone's exposed to the "average" person's top 10 or so results. With personalized results, potentially millions of different pages are exposed as the top 10 or so results depending on who's searching. You get stuff that's a little more relevant to your usual interests, which places you in your own bubble, but IMO that's better than everyone in the world being in the same shared bubble.

> Sure it is. I don't think you understand the term "search bubble". It's a bubble because you're cut off from the rest of the world, like the boy in the bubble. The only way everyone getting the same results is a "bubble" is if you consider us living within the atmosphere of Earth as being in a "bubble". > You get stuff that's a little more relevant to your usual interests Did you even read the linked page? Claiming…

> It's a bubble because you're cut off from the rest of the world, like the boy in the bubble.

Everyone getting the same narrow set of search results for a term based on global popularity means everyone's cut off from more diverse search results. We've seen research that indicates people click only the top couple results. IMO, that's a big bubble.

> Claiming that getting results that are in-line with your pre-disposed ideas (which are expressed through the profile Google/etc have of you) is like claiming that a board of directors full of yes-men is a great recipe for success.

And giving everyone the same results is like having a single board of directors for everyone.

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#317

Post by hkailahi »

toxican wrote: post #253
hkailahi wrote: post #171

At the moment, this thread seems more like a YouTube comment section than a HN one. Though it's not exactly surprising given that Tim Cook's speech is obviously aimed at Google/FB. Let's start with the facts. Apple makes its major money in hardware. Google makes its major money in search. Obviously, iOS has to be able to compete with Android in order for iPhones to sell well. Google offers services like Google Now an…

Doesn't the bulk of Google's money come from advertising, rather than search?

You're not wrong, but I wouldn't separate the two. The reason Google can have the #1 advertising platform is because it runs the #1 search engine. Search powers personalized advertisements, and is responsible for most of the money in Google's business.

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#318

Post by gwu78 »

coned88 wrote: post #312
gwu78 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apple collects tons of user data..." I gateway all my devices through one computer running a stripped down kernel. Through this host I monitor all attempted network connections. I block ads and of course this means I block Apple. Apple devices are like beacons, attempting to contact a variety of Apple servers from the moment you turn them on and continuing to "phone home" incessantly 24/7 until you turn them off. Th…

> I gateway all my devices through one computer running a stripped down kernel. Through this host I monitor all network connections. I block ads and of course this means I block Apple. Do you do this always via a vpn or something or was it just to try it out?

s/connections/attempted &/

Yes, I do this always.

For me, the ad blocking is most easily done via DNS. djbdns features make it especially easy. I have been using DNS to block ads especially in app ads for several years now. Never expected it to work so well (such heavy reliance on DNS by developers), but it does.

There are of course other ways besides DNS to block unwanted connections including ones to Apple and third party ad servers.

As for Apple's VPN capabilities, I have experimented with xl2tpd but not as a way to block ads.

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#320

Post by dashoffset »

minthd wrote: post #275
threatofrain wrote: post #170

Apple collects tons of user data, and I'm sure they use some of it to provide machine-learning backed services, and I'm sure they'll come out with much nicer products to compete with Google in the future, also enhanced by machine learning techniques. The difference that Tim Cook wants you to believe in is that Apple doesn't directly make money from your data, they just use it to improve their product; alternatively,…

It's even worse than that.Not using Apple's products is a good way to increase privacy. How ? If you use Google's products(and who doesn't use Google Search ? ) , Google already knows plenty about you. And even if you don't use Google products, Google knows plenty about you, since it's tracking software is installed in large percentage of sites, etc. And if you add machine learning on top of that , the amount that Go…

Isn't it better to have two companies that have partial information about you than one company that knows it all?
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