Some Indians Find It Tough to Go Home Again • Hacker News Board

Re: Some Indians Find It Tough to Go Home Again

#11

Post by ibsulon » Sat, Nov 28, 2009, 3:26 PM UTC

revorad wrote: post #7

When an Indian leaves the country to go west, he's made to feel like a traitor for leaving his "motherland". A lot of Indians live with some form of guilt for having a happy and healthy life outside India. The guilt takes some people like the ones mentioned in this article to go back and do some good for the country. I think Indians at home need to realise that there is a world outside India. It's exciting, it's beau…

The problem is they're losing the most ambitious and the most intelligent, the ones who could help the country the most.

However, the country was wasting those resources anyway.

Re: Some Indians Find It Tough to Go Home Again

#12

Post by maddalab » Sat, Nov 28, 2009, 3:48 PM UTC

As someone who grew up in India, studied and worked and the US and who spent 6 months attempting to help my previous employer set up an off site development centre at a third party vendor, before returning to the US, here is my perspective.

Management culture is not controlling or assertive in a manner any different than that practised at my US employer. The differences are mostly in response to such assertiveness, Indians tend to typically approach such assertiveness by authority with mere acceptance without necessarily understanding the reason underlying the decision. Such management assertiveness I have found to be misguided with the same rate at both locations.

Management response to highlighting inefficiencies in work culture or ineffectiveness with regards to output is specific to the organization, and in my experience I found the response to be similar, hide inefficiencies rather than work towards improvements.

I do not think I would find it difficult to go "home" (I consider US to be my home now), I would only need to find an organization that has the same first principles of continuous (personal and profession) improvement as I do.

Finding such an organization in either nation would be similarly difficult or easy.

Re: Some Indians Find It Tough to Go Home Again

#13

Post by pavs » Sat, Nov 28, 2009, 3:50 PM UTC

keeptrying wrote: post #9

pavs wrote: post #2

This made me smile. Not in an evil, condescending, I-told-you-so feeling way (after all I am from south-east Asia). Its just one of those things "most ex-pats" could tell you from miles away how this will end up. Going on a vacation to India is one thing, relocating there after spending most of your life in western nation is a totally different ball game, no matter how much money is involved. To say that "its difficu…

Lots of people still make it work. Solutions for the problems quoted: 1. Pollution: Dont live in the city. 2. Traffic: Get a big car and a driver ($140 a month). You can sit in the back with a laptop and 1MBps connectivity for $15 a month. 3. Corruption: Work in the private sector and not in the public sector. I was just in India and the undercurrent of the country is very positive which I cant say about the present…

Well you can do all these sitting in NY, minus the inconvenience. As long as you have an original good idea for business, you don't need to move to india (or anywhere else) to make it successful.

I guess my main beef with this feel-good, nationalistic, let's-all-go-to-india movement is that whether you like it or not - regardless of your original intentions - this will only benefit the elite few, the rich will get richer and poor will remain where they were before you went to india hoping to make a difference.

Indian doesn't need an influx of ex-pats to go to india to make a difference, they have plenty of smart people there already, they need a change in corrupt culture of government bureaucracy and outreach of social development that reaches way beyond the western-looking city landscapes.

They got their priorities wrong.

Re: Some Indians Find It Tough to Go Home Again

#14

Post by known » Sat, Nov 28, 2009, 4:12 PM UTC

dadadooda wrote: post #6

known wrote: post #5

I can empathize with Shiva Ayyadurai. Couple of years back I was working for an eGovernance project http://mca.gov.in/ Govt officials in India want you to be subservient . "The nail that stands out will be hammered down." -- Japanese Proverb Edit: After http://mca.gov.in/ became operational, I resigned and ran away to Japan to join GS.

Isn't this an over-generalization? It's not fair to stereotype all government officials in India like that, is it?

As the interview was closing, Mr. Brahmachari questioned why anyone would be interested in the situation, and then said he would complain to a reporter’s bosses in New York if she continued to pursue the story.

Re: Some Indians Find It Tough to Go Home Again

#15

Post by revorad » Sat, Nov 28, 2009, 4:30 PM UTC

ibsulon wrote: post #11

revorad wrote: post #7

When an Indian leaves the country to go west, he's made to feel like a traitor for leaving his "motherland". A lot of Indians live with some form of guilt for having a happy and healthy life outside India. The guilt takes some people like the ones mentioned in this article to go back and do some good for the country. I think Indians at home need to realise that there is a world outside India. It's exciting, it's beau…

The problem is they're losing the most ambitious and the most intelligent, the ones who could help the country the most. However, the country was wasting those resources anyway.

"Brain drain" is often cited as the problem. I doubt it has as big an impact as people claim it to have.

Even though a fraction of the top talent leaves, there are a lot of very intelligent and talented people in India who don't leave the country.

The biggest thing that's holding back development in India is the one thing which Indians are very proud of: culture. In a country where you have to respect people purely based on age and status, bad ideas will continue to win.

Re: Some Indians Find It Tough to Go Home Again

#16

Post by pavs » Sat, Nov 28, 2009, 4:43 PM UTC

revorad wrote: post #15

ibsulon wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is they're losing the most ambitious and the most intelligent, the ones who could help the country the most. However, the country was wasting those resources anyway.

"Brain drain" is often cited as the problem. I doubt it has as big an impact as people claim it to have. Even though a fraction of the top talent leaves, there are a lot of very intelligent and talented people in India who don't leave the country. The biggest thing that's holding back development in India is the one thing which Indians are very proud of: culture. In a country where you have to respect people purely b…

Exactly! Most people forgets that india has more population than USA and Europe combined!

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=us+population+%2B+europ...

They don't lack people who can make a difference, they lack the proper environment to make a difference. You can take all the best and the brightest of the world to india and it would not make _much_ difference unless the government initiates the right environment for change.

Re: Some Indians Find It Tough to Go Home Again

#17

Post by martythemaniak » Sat, Nov 28, 2009, 6:34 PM UTC

None of these articles even attempt to mention culture and upbringing, which plays an immense role. For example, the person in the article came to the US when he was 7. He is most likely very much Americanized and would feel a foreigner in India, whereas 20-something Indians that come to the US to do their masters/PhD probably can't wait to get back, where they can feel at right at home.

Re: Some Indians Find It Tough to Go Home Again

#18

Post by keeptrying » Sat, Nov 28, 2009, 7:11 PM UTC

pavs wrote: post #13

keeptrying wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people still make it work. Solutions for the problems quoted: 1. Pollution: Dont live in the city. 2. Traffic: Get a big car and a driver ($140 a month). You can sit in the back with a laptop and 1MBps connectivity for $15 a month. 3. Corruption: Work in the private sector and not in the public sector. I was just in India and the undercurrent of the country is very positive which I cant say about the present…

Well you can do all these sitting in NY, minus the inconvenience. As long as you have an original good idea for business, you don't need to move to india (or anywhere else) to make it successful. I guess my main beef with this feel-good, nationalistic, let's-all-go-to-india movement is that whether you like it or not - regardless of your original intentions - this will only benefit the elite few, the rich will get ri…

I think India does require higher level executives. Ie COO, CFOs, CEOs etc. Ie leaders who know how to take a company from $20 million yearly revenue to $200 million and then to $1 billion.

I have friends in Mckinsey who consult at this level and the reason they get work in India is because lack of talent at this level.

Its the reason that at this level you can probably make as much in India as you would in the US regardless of PP.

The good thing about this situation is that if your an "re-pat" from the US you could get one of these jobs even if you;ve only been managing 10-14 people before. Ie scary big opportunities which you would not get here in the states till you'd put in 10 years at a firm.

Re: Some Indians Find It Tough to Go Home Again

#19

Post by RK » Sat, Nov 28, 2009, 7:12 PM UTC

martythemaniak wrote: post #17

None of these articles even attempt to mention culture and upbringing, which plays an immense role. For example, the person in the article came to the US when he was 7. He is most likely very much Americanized and would feel a foreigner in India, whereas 20-something Indians that come to the US to do their masters/PhD probably can't wait to get back, where they can feel at right at home.

Did you read the article? That was the whole point of the article.

For example: Returnees run into trouble when they “look Indian but think American,”

It was specifically talking about people who had spent lots of time outside of India (if not their entire lives) before going (back) to India. It was not referring to people that had just gone to grad school abroad then went right back.

Re: Some Indians Find It Tough to Go Home Again

#20

Post by pavs » Sat, Nov 28, 2009, 7:30 PM UTC

keeptrying wrote: post #18

pavs wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you can do all these sitting in NY, minus the inconvenience. As long as you have an original good idea for business, you don't need to move to india (or anywhere else) to make it successful. I guess my main beef with this feel-good, nationalistic, let's-all-go-to-india movement is that whether you like it or not - regardless of your original intentions - this will only benefit the elite few, the rich will get ri…

I think India does require higher level executives. Ie COO, CFOs, CEOs etc. Ie leaders who know how to take a company from $20 million yearly revenue to $200 million and then to $1 billion. I have friends in Mckinsey who consult at this level and the reason they get work in India is because lack of talent at this level. Its the reason that at this level you can probably make as much in India as you would in the US re…

You are talking about a small niche, I am (and most others are) talking generally. There is nothing exclusive about those kind of jobs in India, you will find them in most developing countries.

Most of these people, the articles is referring to, are going to India for nationalistic reason, with some kind of assurance from government about job security. Not necessarily because they will have better opportunity there. A small group of people might, but most won't.