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Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

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Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#81

Post by Sophistifunk »

magicalist wrote: post #75

> Cook went on to state, as he has before when talking about products like Apple Pay, that Apple ‘doesn’t want your data.’ I was actually somewhat disappointed by the Apple Pay approach (and that Android Pay is going to follow suit). I'd actually much rather have Apple or Google as an intermediary and give the credit card issuer no information about my transaction. It may seem nice to say that your phone OS sees no d…

You, me, and Apple. But no payment company would ever agree, so it's pretty much a non-starter for another 5 or 10 years.

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#82

Post by spdustin »

duskwuff wrote: post #76
MCRed wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, Apple has had face recognition in Aperture, and probably iPhoto, for many years. Probably around the time that Facebook got it. Of course people who dislike Apple are unlikely to be using Apple software and wouldn't know this. Edit after the vote brigade: These are two straight up statements of fact. When you down vote them, you tell me that you're being ideological and you don't care what the facts are. Alas,…

Likely explanation for the downvotes: By stating "Apple has had face recognition in Aperture, and probably iPhoto" here, you're heavily implying some things which aren't true at all. In particular, you're implying that as well as including local face recognition features, Apple is somehow transmitting face recognition data to its servers and/or elsewhere. This is simply not true; these features are entirely local.

I think he was pointing out that they've had privacy-focused face detection in their products for some time now.

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#83

Post by threatofrain »

msabalau wrote: post #2

In other words, Apple is incapable of competing at delivering valuable user experiences on the basis of machine learning, so they are trashing the concept.

I think Apple may be communicating something different: I think Tim Cook is merely criticizing that those companies make money off of your information somehow, while giving you a service "for free".

I don't think that precludes Apple from using machine learning techniques on mass-collected data.

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#84

Post by JoeAltmaier »

krisgenre wrote: post #79

I find taking pot shots at competing companies really cheap. Its 2015 and by now I think most people are aware that Facebook and Google collect all the information they can so that they can offer their services for 'free'. How many would really pay for email, cloud storage, search, social network, browser..? what guarantees do I have that the government will NOT have access to my data if I pay for it?

I do pay for email, cloud storage and browser. There's a strong argument my personal information should not be harvested by the folks I paid.

But paying for things is entirely unrelated to the government having access to your data. The govt can require a company to collect personal information that passes through their hands, even if they weren't collecting it for business purposes.

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#85

Post by callil »

They are setting the stage for announcing the launch of their google now compete which they will sell as more secure and private (no selling your info for ads!) [0]

This is all part of their marketing campaign.

[0] http://9to5mac.com/2015/05/27/apples-proactive-to-take-on-go...

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#86

Post by zak_mc_kracken »

stephenr wrote: post #67
zak_mc_kracken wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As magicalist points out in his response, you are taking Schmidt's quote completely out of context. Don't feel bad, you're not the only one. Schmidt (and Google) are extremely pro-privacy and against sharing information with the government. Google must have like ten lawsuits going on at all times on the entire planet trying to fight intrusive data request from governments. They spend hundreds of millions of dollars e…

> Schmidt (and Google) are extremely pro-privacy and against sharing information with the government. Privacy doesn't mean "don't share my data with the government". > They spend hundreds of millions of dollars every year to prevent governments from gaining access to their data Funny how you say "Google are extremely pro-privacy" and then describe the vast amassed personal information of users as "their data", referr…

You seem to think that "pro-privacy" is equivalent to "don't collect any private information".

It's not. Not at all.

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#87

Post by wvenable »

magicalist wrote: post #75

> Cook went on to state, as he has before when talking about products like Apple Pay, that Apple ‘doesn’t want your data.’ I was actually somewhat disappointed by the Apple Pay approach (and that Android Pay is going to follow suit). I'd actually much rather have Apple or Google as an intermediary and give the credit card issuer no information about my transaction. It may seem nice to say that your phone OS sees no d…

> credit card issuer no information about my transaction

Since the credit card issuer is actually the one paying (and you, in turn, pay them) this doesn't at all seem reasonable. Apple Pay is the middle man.

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#88

Post by traek »

threeseed wrote: post #10
msabalau wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvote if you want, but billions of people get value every day out of Facebook, Google, and Amazon knowing them. Saying scary words about advertising isn't going to keep people from abandoning Apple's premium priced lower quality photo service.

People get value from the core service of Facebook, Google and Amazon not their machine learning driven advertising/recommendation engines. And I would argue that given that since those engines are used to drive company profit first and user experience second they are of limited value to the user. And if you are talking about Google Now style functionality well I haven't seen that changing the world same with Siri, C…

I get value from Google's personalized search and Facebook's customization of my News Feed. I'm not saying those services don't exist to drive company profit, but I do think that machine learning and personalization can add value for the end user.

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#89

Post by CurtMonash »

I'm beyond thrilled at this, because the chilling effects point hasn't been made nearly often enough. My version is at http://www.dbms2.com/2013/07/29/very-chilling-effects/

That it happens to be commercially advantageous for him to say that his business model is more virtuous than Google's or Facebook's doesn't bother me. In fact, I think there are fixes that could preserve their business models yet reduce the threat. Great. In the mean time, we need people to understand that unfettered surveillance and data use, taken together, are a drastic threat to human freedom.

Re: Apple’s Tim Cook Delivers Blistering Speech on Encryption, Privacy

#90

Post by zyxley »

zak_mc_kracken wrote: post #61
stephenr wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All these companies are in it to win your private information, The companies he Tim Cook described, that offer "free" services and data-mine/aggregate/sell your personal information to fund the business? Yes. Apple has a vested interest in not collecting, analysing, aggregating and using the vast amounts of private information other companies do: they're seen by many as a premium brand, where you pay a bit more and…

> Apple has a vested interest in not collecting, analysing Do you seriously believe that? They are doing this non stop. Not a month goes by without my iPad requesting my iCloud password so it can back up my entire tablet, even though I've repeatedly declined to provide it. They are collecting and analysing PII data all the time. They need it because it's an arms' race. They will only stop if compelled to do so by gov…

> Not a month goes by without my iPad requesting my iCloud password so it can back up my entire tablet

It sounds like you have Settings -> iCloud -> Backup -> iCloud Backup turned on.

> They are collecting and analysing PII data all the time.

What sort of evidence do you have to support this?

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