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FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

theguardian.com

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Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#121

Post by coldtea »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #58
tertius wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stopping tax payments isn't the only way to protest.

I'd love to hear ideas on this. I am dismayed, nay, infuriated that we waste taxpayer dollars in such a manner when the returns have been found to be non-existent. Yet, I read about atrocities committed every day by ISIS and the US government sits back and does little. This is not the world I want to live in, and I have no idea how to solve these non-technical problems. EDIT: Regarding downvotes and the replies as of…

>If ISIS wants us to engage them, we just sit back and allow them to rape whole villages and sell women into the sex trade?

ISIS are an insignificant mock army of goat herders with guns. They could be eradicated in an afternoon. It's presense though helps with strategic goals of instability for the region.

>You don't go to war for oil. You go to war for human rights and to prevent the slaughter and abuse of innocent people.

That has never happened in the history of modern war. It was all about strategic interests, political influence and resource grabbing.

Heck, if anything lots of dictators have been put to place and pampered, allowed to "rape whole villages" and kill innocent people, by the same people pretending to care for "human rights" in other instances. From Mossadeq to being in bed with Shaddam, the Taliban, Pinochet, Saudi Arabia, El Salvador "death squads", etc. And then bringing even more death and chaos when those deals went out of favor or allies changed.

Besides that's the role of cops. Who appointed any country world cop? Should third countries had invaded the US to end "slavery", seggregation, the "police state" killing blacks etc?

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#122

Post by pavel_lishin »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #105
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it sounds scary anyway. I mean, I'd know everything about you -- where you lived, where you shopped, where you worked, where you ate out, where your friends lived, what you did with your friends, when you did it, etc. I could even get further than you might imagine: I probably have a really good guess (>0.99) what you do at your work, given your activities outside of work and the people you associate with. I…

People for the first million years, lived in one anothers pockets. There was no anonymity. Arguably we're designed to be social because of that. The modern tendency toward outbursts of antisocial behavior might be a product of anonymity.

What sort of "outbursts of antisocial behavior" are you talking about, and is there really a modern tendency towards it?

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#123

Post by pavel_lishin »

davnicwil wrote: post #68
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it sounds scary anyway. I mean, I'd know everything about you -- where you lived, where you shopped, where you worked, where you ate out, where your friends lived, what you did with your friends, when you did it, etc. I could even get further than you might imagine: I probably have a really good guess (>0.99) what you do at your work, given your activities outside of work and the people you associate with. I…

I agree that some of the possibilities of such tech are scary. However, putting on my optimist hat, they are only possibilities. Of course it will be possible to do such things. The question then becomes: why would anyone do them, and (somewhat linked) what are the chances that anyone will do them to you? > I tell your boss when you lie about being sick, I tell your insurance how often you do risky things when not dr…

> All of these things were possible 50 years ago. They are possible now. They will be possible in 50 years.

But 50 years ago, these things were not trivial to accomplish. You couldn't just rewind a public feed, and find this information out about any given person - you had to dedicate manpower to tracking any one given individual.

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#124

Post by toomuchtodo »

coldtea wrote: post #121
toomuchtodo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to hear ideas on this. I am dismayed, nay, infuriated that we waste taxpayer dollars in such a manner when the returns have been found to be non-existent. Yet, I read about atrocities committed every day by ISIS and the US government sits back and does little. This is not the world I want to live in, and I have no idea how to solve these non-technical problems. EDIT: Regarding downvotes and the replies as of…

> If ISIS wants us to engage them, we just sit back and allow them to rape whole villages and sell women into the sex trade? ISIS are an insignificant mock army of goat herders with guns. They could be eradicated in an afternoon. It's presense though helps with strategic goals of instability for the region. > You don't go to war for oil. You go to war for human rights and to prevent the slaughter and abuse of innocen…

> Besides that's the role of cops. Who appointed any country world cop? Should third countries had invaded the US to end "slavery", seggregation, the "police state" killing blacks etc?

You don't appoint someone to do the right thing. The US civil war was large enough that it was tantamount to another country (the North) overthrowing the South to end slavery.

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#125

Post by istvan__ »

baddox wrote: post #106
kenbellows wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... are you suggesting that the entire US population refuse to pay any taxes until surveillance issues are fixed? Because that's a terrible idea.

I wouldn't suggest that such a plan is remotely likely, but a massive organized tax protest would be interesting and probably even beneficial.

Totally agree. The first country where people do this will write history about who is really in charge in a country.

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#126

Post by lazaroclapp »

tn13 wrote: post #104
kenbellows wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... are you suggesting that the entire US population refuse to pay any taxes until surveillance issues are fixed? Because that's a terrible idea.

Demand an upper limit on total government spending as a % of GDP + upper limit for marginal tax rates for all individuals. Given the popularity of welfare very likely government will be forced to bring sense into its spending. That is the only way. Other way is to use your second amendment rights.

What happens if you want government to spend money on things in general (infrastructure, healthcare, national and international aid in case of disasters, reasonable defense projects), just not on spying on civilians?

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#127

Post by runjake »

rhino369 wrote: post #87
imglorp wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a vast gulf between a random schmuck with some aerial imaging and a global, totalitarian, surveillance state with nearly omniscient powers. This stuff is merely yet another database input.

Totalitarian? Nearly omniscient? US law enforcement can't even keep bombs off airplanes, drugs out of prison, and people from getting away with murder.

> US law enforcement can't even keep bombs off airplanes, drugs out of prison, and people from getting away with murder.

They could if that were an actual priority of theirs. But I suspect it's not, and growing their power is.

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#128

Post by coldtea »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #92
rosser wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Doing something" about IS is exactly what they (the leadership of IS) want. They want the West — and particularly the US — to engage militarily with them, to give credence to their particular, perverse brand of apocalyptic Islam. Letting them continue to alienate themselves amongst all the other Muslims on the planet by the way they treat their fellows (if you're Muslim, but don't believe in IS's specific notions of…

> Letting them continue to alienate themselves amongst all the other Muslims on the planet by the way they treat their fellows (if you're Muslim, but don't believe in IS's specific notions of the caliphate, you're an apostate, and must be killed) will, in the long run, do more to destroy them than even nuking all of Syria ever could. Waiting it out is not an option. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east…

>"Here's a chilling excerpt: "After attacking a village, [the Islamic State] splits women from men and executes boys and men aged 14 and over. The women and mothers are separated; girls are stripped naked, tested for virginity and examined for breast size and prettiness."

So, like what Australians did to their indigenous population right until the 70's for example:

>The Stolen Generations (also known as Stolen children) were the children of Australian Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander descent who were removed from their families by the Australian Federal and State government agencies and church missions, under acts of their respective parliaments. The removals occurred in the period between approximately 1909 and 1969, although in some places children were still being taken until the 1970s.

The children were placed in concentration camps, forced into servitude for white families, and often raped.

>The report said that among the 502 inquiry witnesses, 17% of female witnesses and 7.7% of male witnesses reported experiencing a sexual assault while in an institution, at work, or with a foster or adoptive family.

The main idea was to "white out" their population (sometimes decorated with some racist BS about protecting the children from their savage parents that were unfit to parent them etc, but other times spelled out clearly).

Or how about what the current "allies", and highly sophisticated people, the Germans did, less than a century ago, to several million jews, gays, gypsies and commies...

Or how about the ever popular torture, rape, sexual assalts etc. perpetuated by armies wherever they ventured to bring "democracy" to (it's not like the pictures from that prison in Iraq were that far back).

I'm giving those examples to put what's happening there in some perspective, because some people just see "them, uncivilized subhumans" and "us, sophisticated democrats", whereas it's more like the pot calling the kettle black, with the exception that the pot has better PR and pisses far away from where he lives, so the stink doesn't come as easily...

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#129

Post by CWuestefeld »

woah wrote: post #119
toomuchtodo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to hear ideas on this. I am dismayed, nay, infuriated that we waste taxpayer dollars in such a manner when the returns have been found to be non-existent. Yet, I read about atrocities committed every day by ISIS and the US government sits back and does little. This is not the world I want to live in, and I have no idea how to solve these non-technical problems. EDIT: Regarding downvotes and the replies as of…

Isis was originally armed by the U.S. "doing something" about Assad.

...and doing something about Libya, too.

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#130

Post by toomuchtodo »

coldtea wrote: post #128
toomuchtodo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Letting them continue to alienate themselves amongst all the other Muslims on the planet by the way they treat their fellows (if you're Muslim, but don't believe in IS's specific notions of the caliphate, you're an apostate, and must be killed) will, in the long run, do more to destroy them than even nuking all of Syria ever could. Waiting it out is not an option. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east…

> "Here's a chilling excerpt: "After attacking a village, [the Islamic State] splits women from men and executes boys and men aged 14 and over. The women and mothers are separated; girls are stripped naked, tested for virginity and examined for breast size and prettiness." So, like what Australians did to their indigenous population right until the 70's for example: > The Stolen Generations (also known as Stolen chil…

I'm not quite sure how, because atrocities previously have been committed, its acceptable to allow them to be committed now.
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