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FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

theguardian.com

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Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#101

Post by Symmetry »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #35
msane wrote: post #25

I think this is our future, whether it's dystopian or not. Technology is eventually going to make it impossible to really prevent "Persistent aerial surveillance". What requires an expensive small blimp today might become the size of a ping pong ball (or wide area flock of them) and come out of a 3D printer tomorrow. So who will be using such tech? Governments and private entities alike - we can try to legislate agai…

I think it sounds scary anyway. I mean, I'd know everything about you -- where you lived, where you shopped, where you worked, where you ate out, where your friends lived, what you did with your friends, when you did it, etc. I could even get further than you might imagine: I probably have a really good guess (>0.99) what you do at your work, given your activities outside of work and the people you associate with. I…

You think people can't handle it but it's actually pretty close to the way most people lived before urbanization brought anonymity to the masses. Now, technological changes might eliminate privacy which would be unprecedented but it's anonymity that's historically weird, not its lack.

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#102

Post by rhino369 »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #96
rhino369 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you arguing the enforcing the law is a bad thing? I think it's clear people arguing this line of thinking aren't pro privacy, they just want people to get away with crimes.

Yes, actually; enforcing all of the laws all of the time is completely impractical. If you want always-on enforcement of every law, then we're going to have to seriously reform all of the laws. So, WRT your comment, I would tell you that it is my preference that laws be enforced to solve a specific social problem, not merely for the sake of enforcing a law.

The FBI isn't handing out parking tickets.

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#103

Post by underbluewaters »

msane wrote: post #25

I think this is our future, whether it's dystopian or not. Technology is eventually going to make it impossible to really prevent "Persistent aerial surveillance". What requires an expensive small blimp today might become the size of a ping pong ball (or wide area flock of them) and come out of a 3D printer tomorrow. So who will be using such tech? Governments and private entities alike - we can try to legislate agai…

"we can try to legislate against either but technology will probably overpower the legislation quickly"

Technology is here to serve us. What's with this attitude that we don't have the tools (laws) to control what our government and people are and aren't allowed to do? It's like the good ideas of small government and libertarianism have been warped mean that laws are no longer the solution to anything.

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#104

Post by tn13 »

kenbellows wrote: post #28
shit_parade2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only that gumption extended to the US tax payer footing the bill to be spied upon.

... are you suggesting that the entire US population refuse to pay any taxes until surveillance issues are fixed? Because that's a terrible idea.

Demand an upper limit on total government spending as a % of GDP + upper limit for marginal tax rates for all individuals. Given the popularity of welfare very likely government will be forced to bring sense into its spending.

That is the only way. Other way is to use your second amendment rights.

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#105

Post by JoeAltmaier »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #35
msane wrote: post #25

I think this is our future, whether it's dystopian or not. Technology is eventually going to make it impossible to really prevent "Persistent aerial surveillance". What requires an expensive small blimp today might become the size of a ping pong ball (or wide area flock of them) and come out of a 3D printer tomorrow. So who will be using such tech? Governments and private entities alike - we can try to legislate agai…

I think it sounds scary anyway. I mean, I'd know everything about you -- where you lived, where you shopped, where you worked, where you ate out, where your friends lived, what you did with your friends, when you did it, etc. I could even get further than you might imagine: I probably have a really good guess (>0.99) what you do at your work, given your activities outside of work and the people you associate with. I…

People for the first million years, lived in one anothers pockets. There was no anonymity. Arguably we're designed to be social because of that.

The modern tendency toward outbursts of antisocial behavior might be a product of anonymity.

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#106

Post by baddox »

kenbellows wrote: post #28
shit_parade2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only that gumption extended to the US tax payer footing the bill to be spied upon.

... are you suggesting that the entire US population refuse to pay any taxes until surveillance issues are fixed? Because that's a terrible idea.

I wouldn't suggest that such a plan is remotely likely, but a massive organized tax protest would be interesting and probably even beneficial.

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#107

Post by tn13 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #58
tertius wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stopping tax payments isn't the only way to protest.

I'd love to hear ideas on this. I am dismayed, nay, infuriated that we waste taxpayer dollars in such a manner when the returns have been found to be non-existent. Yet, I read about atrocities committed every day by ISIS and the US government sits back and does little. This is not the world I want to live in, and I have no idea how to solve these non-technical problems. EDIT: Regarding downvotes and the replies as of…

Going by the USA's history of waging wars against Islamic terrorism I think the track record is very poor. USA has lost a lot of money and has made situations only worse. There is no point saving some child in Iraq by taxing an American

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#108

Post by crucialfelix »

msane wrote: post #25

I think this is our future, whether it's dystopian or not. Technology is eventually going to make it impossible to really prevent "Persistent aerial surveillance". What requires an expensive small blimp today might become the size of a ping pong ball (or wide area flock of them) and come out of a 3D printer tomorrow. So who will be using such tech? Governments and private entities alike - we can try to legislate agai…

And then after that everything will simply be recorded. Human activity prior to this point in time will be considered kind of "pre-historical".

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#109

Post by [deleted] »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #92
rosser wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Doing something" about IS is exactly what they (the leadership of IS) want. They want the West — and particularly the US — to engage militarily with them, to give credence to their particular, perverse brand of apocalyptic Islam. Letting them continue to alienate themselves amongst all the other Muslims on the planet by the way they treat their fellows (if you're Muslim, but don't believe in IS's specific notions of…

> Letting them continue to alienate themselves amongst all the other Muslims on the planet by the way they treat their fellows (if you're Muslim, but don't believe in IS's specific notions of the caliphate, you're an apostate, and must be killed) will, in the long run, do more to destroy them than even nuking all of Syria ever could. Waiting it out is not an option. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east…

[deleted]

Re: FBI operating fleet of surveillance aircraft flying over US cities

#110

Post by robertfw »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #92
rosser wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Doing something" about IS is exactly what they (the leadership of IS) want. They want the West — and particularly the US — to engage militarily with them, to give credence to their particular, perverse brand of apocalyptic Islam. Letting them continue to alienate themselves amongst all the other Muslims on the planet by the way they treat their fellows (if you're Muslim, but don't believe in IS's specific notions of…

> Letting them continue to alienate themselves amongst all the other Muslims on the planet by the way they treat their fellows (if you're Muslim, but don't believe in IS's specific notions of the caliphate, you're an apostate, and must be killed) will, in the long run, do more to destroy them than even nuking all of Syria ever could. Waiting it out is not an option. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east…

> Waiting it out is not an option.

This is where I am torn. The short term is horrific, but by engaging militarily it seems that we ensure that we have the same problems in the future.

How do we break the cycle? How can we use the resources and technology at our disposal to protect the innocent, without adding more fuel to the fire?

An open ended question. I'm not sure what the answer is. We look at it in terms of "non violent intervention" vs "military operation" and I can't help but wonder what options in the middle we are leaving out due to the myopic nature of our society.

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