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Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

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Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#141
post #3

Save half of what you make, diversify your investments, and pay down your debt. Do this for 15 years and you will be rich with your skills.

This isn't bad advice, but I'd add one more thing: Have fun today. This doesn't mean blow all your savings on the latest shiny, but be sure to set aside a portion of your money just for having fun.

After all, there's no guarantee there will be a tomorrow, and the prospect of retiring "early" 10 years from now does remarkably little to make you happy today.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#142
There are ways to make a lot of money with affiliate marketing, but that can involve a lot of trial and error and can (usually does) involve bootstrapping with a lot of your own cash or a credit card. Although I know of at least one person who turned millionaire after bootstrapping by maxing out his credit cards, I would never suggest doing that. It's a deep hole to climb out of if you fail and for every success story, there's probably 100 failures not talked about. In short, the successes I've seen involve buying advertising to get people to a landing page that generates leads with commissions that (hopefully) pay you back more than you spend getting the traffic. It's a delicate operation that pays well only if you get the landing page and affiliate choices right.

I've also seen wealth generated with mailing lists. This is another affiliate marketing play that can be done without feeling too spammy and can still add value to the user.

Similar to a mailing list, a forum can be easy to set up and maintain. Also like a mailing list, if you create a large enough user base, advertising can pay off.

One of the better earners is a subscription model for just about anything. Software provided for free with a "premium" set of features for $x per month is a good way to generate a user base more easily.

A couple things to keep in mind: 1. You will almost always have more success when you're passionate about the subject matter. 2. It will take time. Most overnight successes are preceded by years of ramp-up.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#143

As someone who has spent their 20's accruing "significant wealth" through a startup (I am by no means loaded, but have not worried about money at all in ~3 years), I'll tell you now - it's overrated. Money can buy you happiness, but it's an inefficient exchange mechanism - unless you roll two sixes, the amount of work and bullshit that goes hand in hand with growing your "worth" usually exceeds the reward - and that…

Having grown up in a poor household with a single parent who worked multiple jobs to get ends to meet, you'll forgive me if I don't feel a whole heck of a lot of sympathy for you and your "gilded cage". Money itself does not buy happiness. A lack of money, though, makes it a heck of a lot harder to find it. The goal should be to reach a point where you don't have to actively worry about money, and that includes some…

Trust me, I've lived worse than paycheck-to-paycheck (tried being homeless?), and having enough to get by is a blessing - but the incremental benefit of wealth is not usually worth the labour it takes to get there.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#144

As someone who has spent their 20's accruing "significant wealth" through a startup (I am by no means loaded, but have not worried about money at all in ~3 years), I'll tell you now - it's overrated. Money can buy you happiness, but it's an inefficient exchange mechanism - unless you roll two sixes, the amount of work and bullshit that goes hand in hand with growing your "worth" usually exceeds the reward - and that…

So why don't you quit?

Because I have a responsibility to my employees and our customers.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. I work in one of those which you mentioned in Germany, and I've less than 3 years experience. By accident I saw the payroll of a top-dev (top engineer actually), and it is "just the double" of mine. That makes makes for a good living with many luxuries Germany standard's but those guys are the ones who have to dance in front of the local CEO every week and can't enjoy weekends and work in the aftern…

Was in the same place as your top-dev. Was exhausted after a day of coding, without getting real appreciation, neither monetary, nor in terms on mindshare. I was always looked upon as an "IT guy" or "technical staff" that gets in the way of implementing great business and marketing ideas created in the heads of great minds, that were so great that it wasn't even possible to write them down accurately. Then I switched…

> I was always looked upon as an "IT guy" or "technical staff" that gets in the way of implementing great business and marketing ideas created in the heads of great minds, that were so great that it wasn't even possible to write them down accurately.

As someone else who works with people with self-proclaimed great ideas but are strangely reluctant to put any of these ideas on paper, it's comforting to know there are others out there who have to work amongst such nonsense.

Edit: I'm curious....do you find now that you've made the move to management, have you had to adopt this same "less than honest" culture in order to be accepted within the middle management ranks?

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not talking about unions. Those are cartels that restrict supply. Lawyers and Doctors are business owners operating as an oligopoly. I'm not talking about business owners. I'm talking about employees. I'm talking about people joining together to put themselves on equal negotiation grounds with their employers. Just because no union has successfully produced wages of 200k plus doesn't mean it can't happen. Soft…

I'm not sure I want anyone else negotiating my salary, or deciding what work I'm allowed to do, or creating some hoops of qualification or exams for me to jump through so I can get a "Programmer III" classification and get another 10K. No thanks. Too blue-collar for me. Its not all about the money after all. We're not talking about poor sweatshop guys trying to feed a family or go on public assistance. We're talking…

The "club" doesn't negotiate FOR you. It negotiates WITH you. You can still negotiate for higher if you think you can get it. All the union says is, no programmer gets paid less the 200k. You want to negotiate to 300k because you think you're that good? Be my guest.

A corporation is a group of organized individuals negotiating against you. A union puts you on equal ground. That's it. If a union doesn't work this way, then it needs to be changed.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not talking about unions. Those are cartels that restrict supply. Lawyers and Doctors are business owners operating as an oligopoly. I'm not talking about business owners. I'm talking about employees. I'm talking about people joining together to put themselves on equal negotiation grounds with their employers. Just because no union has successfully produced wages of 200k plus doesn't mean it can't happen. Soft…

I'm intrigued to hear what examples you draw your inference from. These days I reside in a country which has unions everywhere - including in engineering disciplines. And everyone who wants to increase their salary runs away from union and unionized workplaces as far away and as quickly away as possible. It CAN happen? Why hasn't it, except for guilds (which you rightfully group with business owners)? I can tell you…

>These days I reside in a country which has unions everywhere - including in engineering disciplines. And everyone who wants to increase their salary runs away from union and unionized workplaces as far away and as quickly away as possible.

Makes perfect sense. Unions negotiate lower salaries for everyone. sarcasm

>It CAN happen? Why hasn't it, except for guilds (which you rightfully group with business owners)? I can tell you why it didn't happen in unions I'm familiar with: The union representatives who negotiate on behalf of the employees and the people who can score a >$200k salary are mutually exclusive groups. In fact, they negotiators are usually those who wouldn't score more than the prevailing average in an industry.

Why are union members usually people with low salaries? Simple. Only the least skilled are desperate enough to form unions. They have to do it in a sense. Software engineers are complacent with their super high salaries, not knowing that their 120k annual salary is based off work that generates 1 million in monthly revenue. Thanks to the lack of unions, if you try to negotiate a more than fair 500k annual salary the company will shoot you down. Due to another idiot SE in the world who thinks he's only worth 120k, you're easily replaced without a union backing you up.

>At which point, they are happy to sign an agreement for just 5% than the prevailing average - and they do so in the name of the more capable employees as well.

There's no need to negotiate upper limits on pay. There also should be no need to end individual negotiations. If unions aren't currently structured in a way that benefits the employee then the structure of what we consider to be a union should be changed.

>Other things that happen is stuff like management requesting the union to agree that "no employee will be paid higher than their manager". Which union officials always agree to (for various reasons), and which causes your most productive employees - those who are at the top of their fields but not anywhere near the top of the managerial ladder - to abandon ship.

why does this need to be agreed too? There's no need for this to be agreed to at all. No upper limits to salary. Who wants that? Union members should vote for what they want. Union officials should be held accountable every decision they make. Only lower limits on salary should be negotiated with the union and employer. The actual salary should be a separate negotiation between employee and employer.

IF unions aren't structured that way then they should be. The government shouldn't decide on some arbitrary hierarchy for a union that ends up not benefiting people. People acting together in organized groups generally don't want to fuck themselves over with stupid things like upper limits to salary and ending all individual negotiations with the employer.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why don't you quit?

Because I have a responsibility to my employees and our customers.

I mean over a longer period, transfer this responsibility to someone else.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I want anyone else negotiating my salary, or deciding what work I'm allowed to do, or creating some hoops of qualification or exams for me to jump through so I can get a "Programmer III" classification and get another 10K. No thanks. Too blue-collar for me. Its not all about the money after all. We're not talking about poor sweatshop guys trying to feed a family or go on public assistance. We're talking…

The "club" doesn't negotiate FOR you. It negotiates WITH you. You can still negotiate for higher if you think you can get it. All the union says is, no programmer gets paid less the 200k. You want to negotiate to 300k because you think you're that good? Be my guest. A corporation is a group of organized individuals negotiating against you. A union puts you on equal ground. That's it. If a union doesn't work this way,…

Lets not pretend unions don't totally change the hiring landscape. Easy to say "be my guest" but we both know the corporation will not deal at all, after they've dealt with the union.
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