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Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

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Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#111
post #2

I'll answer the questions you asked, then give you a better question: AppAmaGooBookSoft are probably not what you're thinking of when you say "startups" and 5-10 years in any of them will make you quite wealthy indeed, by the standards of e.g. the American middle class. Do some devs make north of $1 million a year? Yes, for a value of "some." (If you put a gun to my head, I'd say "Maybe 5% of the engineering workforc…

As pointed out, get straight in your head the difference between "wealth" and "rich". "Wealthy" means you can do all the things you like to do all the time, "rich" means you have a big number in an account with one or more financial institutions. Most folks I know in the bay area don't want to "retire" what they want is to work on what ever their passion leads them too without worrying that if it isn't paying them an…

>> If you work at a large tech firm and participate in their employee stock purchase program and/or get stock options, then you are doubly leveraged as that can add a nice kicker to your salary.

Normally this is OK, but can be a concentration of risk if all your wealth is tied up in salary from your employer and stock from your employer. Ask Lehmans employees.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#112

As someone who has spent their 20's accruing "significant wealth" through a startup (I am by no means loaded, but have not worried about money at all in ~3 years), I'll tell you now - it's overrated. Money can buy you happiness, but it's an inefficient exchange mechanism - unless you roll two sixes, the amount of work and bullshit that goes hand in hand with growing your "worth" usually exceeds the reward - and that…

So why don't you quit?

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#113

1. Startups have happiness potential for developer not only because of the monetary wealth but also because of the wealth of the challenges faced. Developers live for tricky puzzles to solve and startups are one place that you can get them. Startups aren't the only place where you can find challenges (as you've noted). The monetary wealth typically comes from stock options. Stock options are a promise that you can bu…

Fantastic response. Digital Ocean is hiring heavily. They give stock options.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#114

As someone who has spent their 20's accruing "significant wealth" through a startup (I am by no means loaded, but have not worried about money at all in ~3 years), I'll tell you now - it's overrated. Money can buy you happiness, but it's an inefficient exchange mechanism - unless you roll two sixes, the amount of work and bullshit that goes hand in hand with growing your "worth" usually exceeds the reward - and that…

Having grown up in a poor household with a single parent who worked multiple jobs to get ends to meet, you'll forgive me if I don't feel a whole heck of a lot of sympathy for you and your "gilded cage".

Money itself does not buy happiness.

A lack of money, though, makes it a heck of a lot harder to find it.

The goal should be to reach a point where you don't have to actively worry about money, and that includes some buffer to allow for luxury expenses... travel, eating out, entertainment, that sort of thing.

Beyond that, additional money will, at best, provide an increment in terms of overall life satisfaction.

Less than that, and money has a major impact on happiness, and anyone who says otherwise has clearly never experienced the stress of living paycheck-to-paycheck. That is a cage, and trust me, it ain't gilded.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would really love to pick you brain with one or two personal questions.

No idea how to send a PM on HN. There should be an email in my profile though.

The email in the profile isn't public, you'd have to add it to the about field.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#116

It really depends on skill and motivation. If your motivation is only money you are unlikely to succeed. Personally I am a big corp dev and making >600k/year on track to retire at 40. But you do not get there by trying for the salary. Try to be good, no exceptional, at what you do. Become valuable and you will be paid. But your motivation should be your craft and not money. I believe the same applies for startup foun…

Is the $600k salary, bonuses, stock options or? Sounds quite incredible to me. I haven't heard from any dev making this kind of salary, not even in the big companies.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. $600k salary+bonuses is C-level executive territory. The idea of an engineer making that kind of money in straight compensation sounds ludicrous to me.

If it's in the form of options, you'll forgive me if I treat that as pretend money until it's transformed into real wealth.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#117
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the $600k salary, bonuses, stock options or? Sounds quite incredible to me. I haven't heard from any dev making this kind of salary, not even in the big companies.

It's not unheard of for really exceptional devs at big tech companies to make a million or more.

"A million or more" in what? Base salary, salary + bonuses, or salary + handcuff compensation (e.g. options)?

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contracting is essentially freelancing. Only minor differences, contractors maybe make bigger contracts and work maybe longer periods of time per one client. It is up to you if you want to call yourself contractor or freelancer :)

How exactly do you start contracting? For instance I've made a couple of decently popular jailbreak iOS apps, which is nice passive income, and a good niche, but I don't really know where to find clients... through friends, on a website, or what?

I looked for a job on normal websites, happened upon one which was a contract job, got it, and since then I've been fed several projects over the span of 1.5/2 years of increasing sizes.

Coincidentally, I am also a jailbreak "app" dev (tweaks only) and I did that almost full time for over a year, almost 1.5 I think. It is indeed a nice little niche. Hard to make real money though, unless you get something really hyped up.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the $600k salary, bonuses, stock options or? Sounds quite incredible to me. I haven't heard from any dev making this kind of salary, not even in the big companies.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. $600k salary+bonuses is C-level executive territory. The idea of an engineer making that kind of money in straight compensation sounds ludicrous to me. If it's in the form of options, you'll forgive me if I treat that as pretend money until it's transformed into real wealth.

fintech dev on wall street / the city probably can

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contracting is essentially freelancing. Only minor differences, contractors maybe make bigger contracts and work maybe longer periods of time per one client. It is up to you if you want to call yourself contractor or freelancer :)

How exactly do you start contracting? For instance I've made a couple of decently popular jailbreak iOS apps, which is nice passive income, and a good niche, but I don't really know where to find clients... through friends, on a website, or what?

Three ways I'm personally aware of:

1. Respond to public RFPs. Most government contracts are bid this way, as are many private contracts. Be prepared to be undercut by the competition. It's pretty cutthroat.

2. Agencies. I know a number of successful contractors who work through headhunting agencies. Downside is the overhead they add to the contract.

3. Networking networking networking.

In the case of the latter, in the beginning it'll be networking through your peers. Join user groups, industry trade groups, local entrepreneurial meetups, that sort of thing. And make sure you stay in touch with your colleagues... you'll never know when some company they're working for puts a project out for tender.

Once you have a few contracts under your belt, if you're good they'll lead to more thanks to referrals, and that can pretty quickly snowball.

If you go this path the best advice you can probably get isn't what you'd expect: be prepared to say no! The quickest way to fail as a contractor is to take on too much work too quickly. At the beginning folks are usually paranoid and take on anything that comes their way, but trust me, that way lies madness!

Edit: As an aside, it's worth noting there's different types of contracting, and you should decide what, exactly, you want to do. A few examples I can think of:

1. Discrete project contracts. You bid to produce a solution, after which you offer some sort of support or maintenance contract. You probably give up the IP in this case, as it's work-for-hire.

2. Contract positions. You're brought in as labour on a new or existing project. Oftentimes specialized skills are valuable, here, as you're often brought in to fill a gap in the existing skillset, whether that's project management, design or architecture experience, or specific technical skills.

3. Really a variant of the first, and is what I think of as contract-to-product. You bid on an initial contract to build a product, after which you provide follow-up services to expand that product on some regular basis. This could be done by billing out on a line item basis, or via a retainer of some kind. It's possible in some cases to retain rights to the IP for a job like this.

So think carefully about what you want to do. Each model has pros and cons and may effect how you bid, what skills you develop, etc.

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