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Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

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Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#81

Post by UK-AL »

starmole wrote: post #24

It really depends on skill and motivation. If your motivation is only money you are unlikely to succeed. Personally I am a big corp dev and making >600k/year on track to retire at 40. But you do not get there by trying for the salary. Try to be good, no exceptional, at what you do. Become valuable and you will be paid. But your motivation should be your craft and not money. I believe the same applies for startup foun…

I think the number one people arnt well off is because people only dream about money, aren't actually really dedicated to working out how to get it.

I've significantly increased my salary, job happiness, and working conditions by actively trying to shape my life and my job(Changing jobs as necessary). I've significantly cut down expenses. Resulting in me being fairly well off.

Being fairly passive about may work, or may not work. I know plenty of brilliant people who love their work but get paid terribly for it.

My strategy is actually fairly reproducible, instead of relying on luck.

I've also found that all else being equal(same industry etc) salary is the number 1 indicator of respect on the job.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#82

Post by heyalexej »

ryandrake wrote: post #59
heyalexej wrote: post #32

"Significant wealth" can mean many different things. I've seen Derek Sivers speaking at multiple conferences. He has a very interesting question that I since ask myself and others: "What do you optimize your life for?". When you find the answer to that question, it gets easier to go from there. Robert Kiyosaki and other wealthy people state that wealth is measured in time. Can you not work for x weeks, months, years…

> Investing/saving $5K a month for 15 years with an expected rate of return of 7% and an expected inflation rate of 3% will bring you to a place where you end up with a balance of ~$1.5MM (or $1MM after inflation) to your name. Would that make you wealthy in your books? So, 15 years and you'll have almost enough to buy a _starter home_ in Palo Alto...

While true, Palo Alto might not be the center of the universe for... like 99.99999999999999999999% of human beings on this planet. The world is a huge playground. I am slow traveling since many many years and have a pretty awesome life in my books. In the end, that's all that matters. But this is what I optimize my life for and doesn't need to apply to anyone else. I don't dream of a luxurious home in Palo Alto. In exchange I can do or not do whatever I please, whenever I please. Stay or walk away from things, jobs, places, people. Means: I found my answer to what I optimize my life for. I am wealthy in my books. Wealthy with a capital "W". Not rich.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#83

Post by jpatokal »

wsc981 wrote: post #25

Like others have suggested in this thread: contracting. Ideally find clients who are willing to work with remote contractors. Emigrate to a "poorer" country and save money. For example, people in Thailand earn on average around 500 EUR a month (from what I've read). If you can manage to work for western clients who perhaps pay you 10.000 EUR a month (40 hour work weeks), you will be able to retire extremely quickly.

Yes, but then you're living the lifestyle of somebody who earns 500 EUR a month in Thailand, which means you've got a wooden shack next to a rice paddy and a couple of water buffalo.

On the other hand, if you want a beachfront villa in Phuket, you can quite easily blow 10.000 EUR a week on renting it.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#84

Post by ryandrake »

starmole wrote: post #72
ryandrake wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what you say is true about your own situation, you must realize that you are an extreme outlier, and no general advice you give is going to allow someone to repeat your immense luck. "Be valuable and you will be paid" sounds like vague happy-talk, not concrete, repeatable steps that one can put into practice and replicate your success. Most people who are "exceptional at what they do" are putzing around at a corpo…

I totally see your point about the advice being douchey. But in this case it was somebody specifically asking for how to make the most money as a dev. Not a struggling single mom making ends meet. In his context I think I made sense. But I would never tell that to somebody trying to get by.

My issue is not that it's "douchey". It's that it's not repeatable. I can change my mind and go into work tomorrow not motivated by money but that alone will not change my career path.

A more useful answer would be something along the lines of: "Get N years of domain experience in X technology at one of A, B, or C firms, and learn sales."

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#85

Post by jmngomes »

markyc wrote: post #77
sosuke wrote: post #44

A general rant, when someone asks about how to make reasonable wealth, significant wealth, or to get richer than you would be as a salaried worker I assume they are interested in getting into the 1% or higher bracket of earners. Someone making 6 figures asking how to get more wealth probably doesn't care they are in the top 10%. They are looking up, not down. Saving half their salary isn't realistic for a single inco…

I have relatives making choices between feeding themselves or their pet for the day why would they have a pet if they can't afford to feed it?

Perhaps they had adopted the pet before a completely unexpected event turned their lives upside down and out of their control?

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#86

Post by markyc »

jmngomes wrote: post #85
markyc wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have relatives making choices between feeding themselves or their pet for the day why would they have a pet if they can't afford to feed it?

Perhaps they had adopted the pet before a completely unexpected event turned their lives upside down and out of their control?

when it's a question if my family eats vs the pet eats, there are only 2 possible answers:

1. sell/give the pet away

or

2. eat the pet

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#87

Post by pandler »

markyc wrote: post #77
sosuke wrote: post #44

A general rant, when someone asks about how to make reasonable wealth, significant wealth, or to get richer than you would be as a salaried worker I assume they are interested in getting into the 1% or higher bracket of earners. Someone making 6 figures asking how to get more wealth probably doesn't care they are in the top 10%. They are looking up, not down. Saving half their salary isn't realistic for a single inco…

I have relatives making choices between feeding themselves or their pet for the day why would they have a pet if they can't afford to feed it?

Considering cats and dogs can live for tens of years, it's safe to assume they didn't wait until they were having hard times to buy the pet.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#88

Post by starmole »

jerguismi wrote: post #28
starmole wrote: post #24

It really depends on skill and motivation. If your motivation is only money you are unlikely to succeed. Personally I am a big corp dev and making >600k/year on track to retire at 40. But you do not get there by trying for the salary. Try to be good, no exceptional, at what you do. Become valuable and you will be paid. But your motivation should be your craft and not money. I believe the same applies for startup foun…

> I think as a dev big corps are the way better bet. Not much to loose, but possibly high payout. Startups very rarely pay out for devs. I disagree. These days the founders are devs more and more often. However, usually you have to get out of your comfort zone and do also other than dev work in a startup. Meaning also learning the business stuff. It isn't rocket science, but for many devs it can be quite uncomfortabl…

Kind of my point. As a startup dev you have to learn biz. And a really great dev should not have to do that. It is a waste of time and talent. OP was asking how to make money as an engineer. Engineers can play the startup lottery. But they are unlikely to win it. You need a Jobs for every Woz. But as a Woz it is hard and unlikely to find a Jobs - and not get fucked over. Hence my advice.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#89

Post by anonnomad »

wsc981 wrote: post #25

Like others have suggested in this thread: contracting. Ideally find clients who are willing to work with remote contractors. Emigrate to a "poorer" country and save money. For example, people in Thailand earn on average around 500 EUR a month (from what I've read). If you can manage to work for western clients who perhaps pay you 10.000 EUR a month (40 hour work weeks), you will be able to retire extremely quickly.

My suggestion for newcomers is a budget of 2000-4000 EUR month for comfortable living in Bangkok (depending on your level of comfortableness). The daily live of a 500 EUR worker is not the same as that of an expat (e.g. membership at a co-work space alone will set you back ~200$/month). Gyms are as expensive as in the west.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#90

Post by PaulRobinson »

The myth that growing the value of equity is the only way to make significant money is a lie, perpetuated to keep you working for somebody else until you have "the big idea".

What if you started a company as an LLP with some smart colleagues and you shared in the growth of each other's talents? What if you created a co-operative?

Come to think of it, what's your goal? To be rich, or to be able to go back to school without worrying about money? The two are not the same. I doubt that most of the open source developers you've heard of can rock around in a Ferrari but they are doing what they love and are happy: haven't they effectively got to the point you wanted to, but without the need to slog out to the point of having piles of money?

I'd also as an addendum suggest diving into the [/r/financialindependence](http://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence) community - lots of ideas there.

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