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Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

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Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#71

Post by caminante »

ryandrake wrote: post #66
chubot wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, being motivated by money is likely to make you less wealthy, because it leads you to the same behaviors as other people seeking money. You are then competing with them, which lessens your likelihood of success. Read Peter Thiel's Zero to One. He talks about competition vs. monopoly. You want to do things that other people aren't doing. He talks about the Harvard MBA grads who chase the last bubble, i.e. getting y…

The problem with the simplistic "do what you love, love what you do" advice is that it is not reliable or repeatable. I can point to tons of people who love what they do and are still somewhere between solidly middle class and struggling to get by.

You're right that the "do what you love" advice is crap. However, I think -- and as Chubot points out -- you have to also avoid the same behaviors as others and offer something "rare and valuable" if you desire money. For those people that you can point to, do they offer the latter and do they have a good sense of when to cash in?

This post from Cal Newport elaborates further[1]. I highly recommend his book So Good They Can't Ignore You.

[1]http://calnewport.com/blog/2010/01/23/beyond-passion-the-sci...

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#72

Post by starmole »

ryandrake wrote: post #56
starmole wrote: post #24

It really depends on skill and motivation. If your motivation is only money you are unlikely to succeed. Personally I am a big corp dev and making >600k/year on track to retire at 40. But you do not get there by trying for the salary. Try to be good, no exceptional, at what you do. Become valuable and you will be paid. But your motivation should be your craft and not money. I believe the same applies for startup foun…

If what you say is true about your own situation, you must realize that you are an extreme outlier, and no general advice you give is going to allow someone to repeat your immense luck. "Be valuable and you will be paid" sounds like vague happy-talk, not concrete, repeatable steps that one can put into practice and replicate your success. Most people who are "exceptional at what they do" are putzing around at a corpo…

I totally see your point about the advice being douchey. But in this case it was somebody specifically asking for how to make the most money as a dev. Not a struggling single mom making ends meet. In his context I think I made sense. But I would never tell that to somebody trying to get by.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#73

Post by sparaker »

sosuke wrote: post #27
starmole wrote: post #24

It really depends on skill and motivation. If your motivation is only money you are unlikely to succeed. Personally I am a big corp dev and making >600k/year on track to retire at 40. But you do not get there by trying for the salary. Try to be good, no exceptional, at what you do. Become valuable and you will be paid. But your motivation should be your craft and not money. I believe the same applies for startup foun…

Why does money motivation reduce your chances? I don't think being exceptional is enough, there are several open source projects created and maintained by exceptional devs, but they don't make >600k/year. Being exceptional working at anything but the right company won't make you money. Why do you thing "dev big corps" are better? What does that mean to you? I think of Microsoft, Google, IBM, Apple, but even after you…

100% agreed.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#75

Post by chubot »

ryandrake wrote: post #66
chubot wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, being motivated by money is likely to make you less wealthy, because it leads you to the same behaviors as other people seeking money. You are then competing with them, which lessens your likelihood of success. Read Peter Thiel's Zero to One. He talks about competition vs. monopoly. You want to do things that other people aren't doing. He talks about the Harvard MBA grads who chase the last bubble, i.e. getting y…

The problem with the simplistic "do what you love, love what you do" advice is that it is not reliable or repeatable. I can point to tons of people who love what they do and are still somewhere between solidly middle class and struggling to get by.

Of course it's not repeatable. There's no repeatable way to get rich quick.

I think of it this way: Suppose you don't have exceptional abilities. If you do what is prestigious, what "seems" like it will get you rich, what other people tell you to do -- then you have roughly a 0% chance of getting rich.

If you take a slightly unusual path, enjoy it, and get the flywheel/positive feedback loop going, you have maybe a 1-3% chance of getting rich.

So if you want to increase your chances of getting rich, I would do something that others aren't, and do it to the point past where others would give up, because it's not making them any money.

The thread is over if you want a repeatable way to get rich. There is something analogous to the "no arbitrage" principle for personal income. If there were an easy way to get rich, someone smarter/earlier/luckier than you has already taken it, and they didn't tell you about it until afterward. You have to find your own way.

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#76

Post by starmole »

nattaggart wrote: post #60
starmole wrote: post #24

It really depends on skill and motivation. If your motivation is only money you are unlikely to succeed. Personally I am a big corp dev and making >600k/year on track to retire at 40. But you do not get there by trying for the salary. Try to be good, no exceptional, at what you do. Become valuable and you will be paid. But your motivation should be your craft and not money. I believe the same applies for startup foun…

Well done sir. I think you are a little dismissive of the value of tech in start-ups though. Start-ups will typically need both better tech and better distribution to displace an incumbent. In my experience, the technology side of this is especially critical. Consumer start-ups, for example, often don't have sales teams at all. That said, budgetary constraints and optimism towards equity grants keep salaries well bel…

Startups a great! I worked in few and learned a lot. I just tried to address op's pretty direct question on how to make money as a dev. Startups are a very bad odds lottery for devs in the end. Even if you are amazing it does not make the startup fail or work. You might save it for aquihire though :)

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#77

Post by markyc »

sosuke wrote: post #44

A general rant, when someone asks about how to make reasonable wealth, significant wealth, or to get richer than you would be as a salaried worker I assume they are interested in getting into the 1% or higher bracket of earners. Someone making 6 figures asking how to get more wealth probably doesn't care they are in the top 10%. They are looking up, not down. Saving half their salary isn't realistic for a single inco…

I have relatives making choices between feeding themselves or their pet for the day

why would they have a pet if they can't afford to feed it?

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#79

Post by adventured »

chubot wrote: post #63
ryandrake wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what you say is true about your own situation, you must realize that you are an extreme outlier, and no general advice you give is going to allow someone to repeat your immense luck. "Be valuable and you will be paid" sounds like vague happy-talk, not concrete, repeatable steps that one can put into practice and replicate your success. Most people who are "exceptional at what they do" are putzing around at a corpo…

No, being motivated by money is likely to make you less wealthy, because it leads you to the same behaviors as other people seeking money. You are then competing with them, which lessens your likelihood of success. Read Peter Thiel's Zero to One. He talks about competition vs. monopoly. You want to do things that other people aren't doing. He talks about the Harvard MBA grads who chase the last bubble, i.e. getting y…

Thiel's premise is not to do things other people aren't doing.

That would have ruled out Google (AltaVista) and Facebook (MySpace).

Thiel's premise is to be the last search engine, the last social network, etc. It's not: don't enter competitive fields; it's: compete, best the competition, and become a monopoly. There's no such thing as avoiding competition, there is no scenario under which Google was going to not have to compete, and have the entire market handed to them. The question is: can you acquire market dominance or not?

Re: Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant wealth for a dev?

#80

Post by starmole »

soulbadguy wrote: post #33
starmole wrote: post #24

It really depends on skill and motivation. If your motivation is only money you are unlikely to succeed. Personally I am a big corp dev and making >600k/year on track to retire at 40. But you do not get there by trying for the salary. Try to be good, no exceptional, at what you do. Become valuable and you will be paid. But your motivation should be your craft and not money. I believe the same applies for startup foun…

I would really love to pick you brain with one or two personal questions.

No idea how to send a PM on HN. There should be an email in my profile though.
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