Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What should I choose, PhD or startup?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 39 posts

Re: What should I choose, PhD or startup?

#11

Post by neilc »

jack7890 wrote: post #8
h_operator wrote: post #3

The Ph.D. will always be there, but the opportunity for a startup might disappear with time. Given that, staying upwind ( http://paulgraham.com/hs.html ) would tend to dictate going with a startup.

Not sure I agree with that; I would suggest that the opposite is true. Top-tier PhD programs almost never allow students to defer an acceptance offer, so the person in question would need to re-apply. Being accepted becomes substantially more difficult the longer you've been working in industry, particularly if you haven't been working in something directly related to the PhD's field of study (like a startup). Startu…

Top-tier PhD programs almost never allow students to defer an acceptance offer

At least in CS, all the top schools I'm aware of usually allow you to defer an acceptance offer (IIRC 6 months for MIT, 1 year for Stanford/Berkeley/etc.).

Re: What should I choose, PhD or startup?

#12

Post by jlees »

jack7890 wrote: post #8
h_operator wrote: post #3

The Ph.D. will always be there, but the opportunity for a startup might disappear with time. Given that, staying upwind ( http://paulgraham.com/hs.html ) would tend to dictate going with a startup.

Not sure I agree with that; I would suggest that the opposite is true. Top-tier PhD programs almost never allow students to defer an acceptance offer, so the person in question would need to re-apply. Being accepted becomes substantially more difficult the longer you've been working in industry, particularly if you haven't been working in something directly related to the PhD's field of study (like a startup). Startu…

My startup's based around the tech I was studying for my PhD (I dropped out to do the startup, my research was leaning more real-worldy than academic, and to stay in academia I'd have had to go in a direction I didn't like). I'm pretty sure (in fact I've more or less been told) I could get the PhD within a couple of years without too much hassle, either full time or part time. I agree with another commenter's point that I might not actually enjoy it though!

Computer science is a little different from chemistry, though, it seems easier to jump in and out of academia like that.

Re: What should I choose, PhD or startup?

#13

Post by jlees »

neilc wrote: post #11
jack7890 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I agree with that; I would suggest that the opposite is true. Top-tier PhD programs almost never allow students to defer an acceptance offer, so the person in question would need to re-apply. Being accepted becomes substantially more difficult the longer you've been working in industry, particularly if you haven't been working in something directly related to the PhD's field of study (like a startup). Startu…

Top-tier PhD programs almost never allow students to defer an acceptance offer At least in CS, all the top schools I'm aware of usually allow you to defer an acceptance offer (IIRC 6 months for MIT, 1 year for Stanford/Berkeley/etc.).

Deferred mine for a term (3/4 months) at Cambridge so I could go pretend I made video games for a living.

Re: What should I choose, PhD or startup?

#14

Post by jlees »

I think personally I would start the PhD but use that to shoehorn my way into the university's innovation support, spinout funding, etc, take part in university entrepreneurship clubs, business plan competitions, so on. Really milk the level of support and encouragement there is within academic institutions for new enterprise.

(Conditional on the business being pretty much at the 'idea' stage and some easy way to ensure the university doesn't grab all the IP etc. If he has a fully developed, tested product and it's just a matter of executing, well, why is he even considering a PhD ;))

It is possible to do both, I know of several PhD students here running or starting up businesses. It's not easy to excel at both and sooner or later there would be a decision point: continue with a PhD with some sunk time and research, or continue with the business which is starting to take off? It should be clear which is the better route by then. Meanwhile the 'kudos' of being a PhD student at $university will help lend credibility to the business.

(note that this is sort of what I did, happy to answer further questions.)

Re: What should I choose, PhD or startup?

#15

Post by eric_t »

It's a good roundup, but I think you missed the most compelling reason to do a PhD, at least it was for me. And that is that you get the opportunity to dig really deep into a problem for three year or more. And that is your only concern, no business crap, no customers, just you and your problem.

Also, the freedom of doing a PhD is great. Want to take two weeks to learn a new programming language? Sure! Want to take two weeks off and go surfing? No problem! In fact, some of my most important work on my PhD was done during one of these "diversions".

Finally, some jobs require a PhD. You may want to consider if that's the kind of job you want. Hard to answer that before you finish, though. For me the answer was a resounding YES!

Re: What should I choose, PhD or startup?

#16

Post by neilc »

I won't try to tell the student what to do, but I will say: (1) Doing a PhD and anything else at the same time is pretty exhausting, and a pretty sure recipe for dragging for PhD out for a long time. A PhD requires a lot of dedication. (2) When you're trying to decide between the two options, think about what you'd rather have 30 years down the line. You can always start another company once you've got your PhD; once you've worked for a few years, will you be in a position to go back to graduate school?

Re: What should I choose, PhD or startup?

#17

Post by eric_t »

Aegean wrote: post #9

Here is my way of decision making on this: If you don't mind dealing with faculty politics and report to a boss, go for the PhD. The benefit is that you get a reasonable salary and funding, and managing others badly does not bring fatality to the venture you are pursuing. You can also focus on your research, without immediate financial worries. If you don't like a boss, if you want to build your own team that you are…

If you think of your supervisor like a boss, that's wrong, IMO. You should pursue your own ideas in your own way, and your supervisor should do just that, supervise you and guide you as best as he can, then let you do what you want with his advice.

Of course it's hard to build a team as a PhD, at best you can get some reasonably competent master students to do some work for you.

Re: What should I choose, PhD or startup?

#18

Post by Aegean »

eric_t wrote: post #17
Aegean wrote: post #9

Here is my way of decision making on this: If you don't mind dealing with faculty politics and report to a boss, go for the PhD. The benefit is that you get a reasonable salary and funding, and managing others badly does not bring fatality to the venture you are pursuing. You can also focus on your research, without immediate financial worries. If you don't like a boss, if you want to build your own team that you are…

If you think of your supervisor like a boss, that's wrong, IMO. You should pursue your own ideas in your own way, and your supervisor should do just that, supervise you and guide you as best as he can, then let you do what you want with his advice. Of course it's hard to build a team as a PhD, at best you can get some reasonably competent master students to do some work for you.

Well, I accept the term boss doesn't fit well. But still, in very competitive institutions you need to deal with lots of politics, do post-docs over post-docs to get a lab of your own or at least be more in control of the research. I think a startup that is financially successful is a good shortcut to that. You can become a CTO and go whatever direction you want.

Re: What should I choose, PhD or startup?

#19

Post by physcab »

This debate comes up often here, but one point that always seems to get left out is that a PhD affords you time for your ideas and skills to mature.

I currently have the unique opportunity to work for a startup while also working on my PhD. I can say without a doubt that a PhD does provide its benefits in some scenarios--that is, you can tailor your PhD research to benefit your startup or vice versa.

For example, I am currently a PhD student studying how to implement Machine Learning algorithms to materials characterization. I often use the same algorithms in R&D work for our startup doing music recommendations and user analytics. Working for a rapidly growing startup helps me see the real world implications of my research, and helps me further understand the benefits or disadvantages of using them.

Another great side benefit of working for a startup is that I have learned how to be more efficient. By learning VIM and unix commands I can do data analysis 1000x quicker on my experimental work than other scientists in my department, just because they are busy fooling around with MS Excel/Origin/LabView.

Re: What should I choose, PhD or startup?

#20

Post by access_denied »

hn wrote: post #5
falsestprophet wrote: post #4

If this student can't figure this out for himself, then he should absolutely not start a business.

Agreed! Ironically, this kind of encourages him [in a subtle way] to start a business to prove he can do it. :)

Is your username meant as a recursive joke?
Post reply on HN