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Coursera is phasing out free certificates

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Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#121

Post by alok-g »

I am very happy to pay to get a certificate for a course that I actually get an opportunity (i.e. time) to finish. With a full-time job, a family, and side projects, it is generally hard for me to predict during sign-up if I'll be able to give enough time for course completion. It is also clear that if I do spent enough time on a course, the monetary value of my time spent and knowledge gained is much more than the cost of the certificate (I am based in the US). Additionally, while I care for the knowledge as the main thing, I do feel "why not" for the certificate too.

However, I do mind getting a certificate showing say a score of 51% when my score is 51% (instead of say 97%) just because I was unable to find time to finish. Does anyone else feel this way? Is my concern real? Assuming so, I would like to pay to get the certificate after I finish the course, not when I start it.

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#122

Post by CamperBob2 »

rpcope1 wrote: post #104
andyidsinga wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, but only to the extent that we're looking at the current state of moocs - which don't offer access to those kinds of equipment. When we start seeing that happen, we're back to the focus on ability to show work, experiments behind them, and the ability to describe the work in great detail to a potential employer in order to get the job. also , for new college grad jobs in chemistry, rocket design, metalu…

I have some very strong doubts that a MOOC will ever be able to offer the laboratory experience that you'd get at a traditional university (I'm not talking entry level). To do a lot of the EE work I've done in the past, you really need to know what you're doing, and a lot of the equipment, like a good vector network analyzer, is both incredibly cost prohibitive (new ones can reach a quarter of a million), and really…

To do a lot of the EE work I've done in the past, you really need to know what you're doing, and a lot of the equipment, like a good vector network analyzer, is both incredibly cost prohibitive (new ones can reach a quarter of a million

I have less than $10K in my HP8510C, thanks to eBay, but I'm also lucky that I'm not into organic chemistry or something else that would get me added to the no-fly list as soon as I tried to equip my lab.

In some states like Texas, the brave, patriotic drug warriors have successfully outlawed common glassware. After all, why would you want an Erlenmeyer flask or a reflux condenser if you're not cooking meth? Eventually, I'm sure it will occur to them that I could use my VNA to optimize the radar cross-section of a homebrew drone to evade the air defenses at the White House, and that'll be the end of that hobby.

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#123

Post by [deleted] »

rhc2104 wrote: post #92
alexashka wrote: post #51

Well that's what happens when you are trying to do charity AND make money - it doesn't make sense. Either it is free, or it is for profit. You have to choose which. Khan Academy is free. MIT Courses on youtube are free. These websites that want you to sign up, only be able to view courses at certain times, etc etc. Please, just give me youtube links and pdf/slides and have a forum for discussion. This is not hard, yo…

edX is a nonprofit, and they also charge for certificates. https://www.edx.org/verified-certificate There are labor costs involved in grading assignments and "making sure that you're the one taking the class".

[deleted]

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#124

Post by joshuapants »

wolfgke wrote: post #28
joshuapants wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, as long as the institution is reputable this is a pretty good heuristic. Of course, determining how reputable an institution is can be a problem in its own right if there are tons of institutions offering seemingly identical certification.

> Of course, determining how reputable an institution is can be a problem in its own right if there are tons of institutions offering seemingly identical certification. First: Compare the time you need to check an institution vs. the time you need for assessing a job candidate (in particular the former only has to be done one time, the latter for each candidate). Second: Nearly all universities in Germany (in terms o…

> in particular the former only has to be done one time

It may have to be done with less frequency, but you probably still want to evaluate them periodically to make sure standards haven't slipped.

Otherwise I agree with you on all points.

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#125

Post by joshuapants »

riskable wrote: post #30
joshuapants wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, as long as the institution is reputable this is a pretty good heuristic. Of course, determining how reputable an institution is can be a problem in its own right if there are tons of institutions offering seemingly identical certification.

No, it isn't a good heuristic. How many Oxford graduates actually remember everything they were taught? How many cheated their way through the hard parts? The only solution is to evaluate a candidate directly. Where or how they learned what they know is at best a mechanism to filter resumes but that itself is a bit naive since you could get candidates from famous universities that don't know anything useful.

> How many Oxford graduates actually remember everything they were taught?

Nobody remembers absolutely everything from any course of study. However, graduating with good marks from a university like Oxford shows that an individual is capable of succeeding in a rigorous environment.

> How many cheated their way through the hard parts?

Most likely more than zero, and this is something you have to take into account when addressing the reputability of an institution. Oxford in particular does have issues with cheating, but most of the discovered cases seem to come from their business school, so even different programs from the same university might have different reputability.

> The only solution is to evaluate a candidate directly

That's obviously false. That is one solution, and clearly the one you prefer, but it is not always (or even often) practical.

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#126

Post by lizardhands »

I work for one of the large MOOC providers. We "sell" "certificates" as a means to enable us to keep on providing education for free for those who would otherwise not have access to it. Certificate sales enable us to function (e.g. pay for staff and infrastructure) and work with our university partners in putting on courses for free.

Every day we get email from learners complaining that we charge for certification. Everyday we also get email from learners thanking us for providing free education. It's a tough balance.

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#127

Post by lizardhands »

I work for one of the large MOOC providers. We "sell" "certificates" as a means to enable us to keep on providing education for free for those who would otherwise not have access to it. Certificate sales enable us to function (e.g. pay for staff and infrastructure) and work with our university partners in putting on courses for free.

Every day we get email from learners decrying us and complaining that we charge for certification. Everyday we also get email from learners thanking us for providing free education. We don't differentiate the experience at all between these groups: one might be seen as subsidising the other.

It's a tough balance.

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#128

Post by wolfgke »

I accept that Coursera wants to earn money. But if paid, verified certificates can't fulfill this wish to Coursera (others on this discussion page already have argued, why it is not that easy to offer additional value for verified certificates), why doesn't Coursera try a completely different way to earn money:

It is often discussed on HN that there is a lack of qualified, say, programmers, data science experts etc. The "typical graduate" of Coursera courses is an ideal candidate to fulfill this role: Why doesn't Coursera instead let employers pay for access to their user database so that they can find high-potential candidates for their open jobs (a little bit similar to Stack Overflow Careers, but with a different focus). Why don't startups that look for underestimated, say, Python programmers search the Coursera database for good graduates of some Python programming course on Coursera. I can imagine that there could be money to be made if the often argued shortage of qualified programmers etc. is true.

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#130

Post by retali8 »

I'm quite surprised there isn't a general "sigh of relief" that this is happening...

HN is a tech news community, where many if not most of you who are working have tech salaries that can easily pay for the new Coursera pricing...

everyone knows the tech industry is volatile in the way that every few months, a new technology comes out that sends IT professionals scrambling to learn it in order to, not stay ahead of the pack, but just to keep up with the pack.

the enormous amount of free tech/programming/CS theory/knowledge from Coursera and others have created more competition in terms of tech jobs.

By principle, all members of our society deserves access to quality education, especially in the STEM areas. But let's face it -- this is good news for existing professionals in IT...for the most part ;-)

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