Coursera is phasing out free certificates • Hacker News Board

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#71

Post by g_delgado14 » Sun, May 31, 2015, 5:56 PM UTC

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #59

I don't see the problem with charging for providing a valuable service. If Coursera is valuable then of course the people who contribute their time to making it so deserve to profit from their efforts. If it isn't valuable, then why does it matter what they charge?

I totally agree with what you're saying. However, I'd like to point out that the initial intention with MOOCs was to lower barriers to entry for low income learners around the world. Adding a fee to certificates may have increased barriers to entry in jobs that require certificates now. This, too, may prove to be a trend for increasing charges in MOOCs ... who knows maybe in a few years you'll be paying a massive sum of money to take a course course.

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#72

Post by wolfgke » Sun, May 31, 2015, 6:02 PM UTC

runn1ng wrote: post #68

wolfgke wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might have the impression that they skipped it. I, in opposite, claim that it showed the employer that you are very willing to upgrade your education on your own.

But that, again, has nothing to do with the final certificate.

No, the certificate certifies that you indeed invested time to upgrade your education on your own to the employer.

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#73

Post by carc » Sun, May 31, 2015, 6:03 PM UTC

kiloreux wrote: post #6

While what the OP mentioned is True , what i really think is that the real value of MOOCs is not in the certificate (it not that much important especially from MOOC providers) but the opportunity that it creates for people to gain knowledge , and personally speaking , MOOCs have changed my life , i live in 3rd world country where the quality of education is worse than you can imagine, but thanks to Coursera, Edx and…

Completely agree. I switched out of the finance/accounting industry to be a software developer because I fell in love with coding. I would not have been able to learn the skills to make that switch (while already working full time) without MOOCs and other awesome online resources to guide me along the way.

MOOCs help us reach the goal that any motivated, bright individual can learn the skills necessary to reach their potential. Obviously we're still far away from that - but free online courses are certainly one step in the right direction.

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#74

Post by ChuckMcM » Sun, May 31, 2015, 6:08 PM UTC

jordigh wrote: post #65

Y'know, back when I actually read the legalese, I feared some day Coursera would take their ball home and nobody would be allowed to play anymore: http://octave.1599824.n4.nabble.com/Stanford-University-Prob... Granted, my fears at the time were about the materials vanishing, not the diplomas, but I still fear that the entire thing will some day become completely closed up.

It isn't an unreasonable fear. The interesting thing though is that the university system (actually all post secondary education) has a vested interest in having this sort of moat.

Of course 'subjects' is only one of many things you learn by going off to college, but as a new 'tradesman' class of job emerges in technology it is struggling with its own accreditation and evaluation crisis. In my youth I was a mason part time and I was required to join the union (although as I was just starting and doing odd jobs it really was more of temporary membership rather than entering as an apprentice with the goal of making masonry my profession). What struck me was how very much the masonry union was, in large part, a educational facility which dedicated a big chunk of its resources to both training new recruits, and ensuring the skills of existing members. And as software has gone from being something just a few people understood or worked on, to something every nerdy secondary school child can do the basics of, I realized that perhaps one way to solve both the 'tuition debt' and employee shortage is to just create a coders union. Something you can walk into at 15 if you want and start apprenticing, and structured so that once you were a master in good standing you could be relied upon by any employer to tackle what ever coding task they threw at you.

The conditions are ripe for this transformation of the software industry, but it is going to be painful for the entrenched players.

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#75

Post by andyidsinga » Sun, May 31, 2015, 6:08 PM UTC

riffraff wrote: post #55

andyidsinga wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this! Once someone learns something -- they can put it into practice (or not if they were just learning for fun). It makes sense that in the future, rather than a certificate, examples of putting learning into practice would become more important. It is certainly easy to show proof of practice already with smartphones, cheaper computers and great publishing tools. portfolio trumps certificate :)

I took a Modern History class on coursera[0] how would I show proof of it? I also took one in macro economics, which also seems somewhat hard to show :) Some subjects are inherently less practical and/or difficult to produce evidence for. [0] which was among the best of more than a dozen classes I've taken across a few MOOCs, highly recommended! https://www.coursera.org/course/modernworld

Okay, good, so lets play this out a bit.

You're claiming these courses, and you also claim you did well and learned something.

So...

Scenario 1 you're interviewing for a job:

Interviewer has knowledge and experience in the area of question.

They ask you "tell me about XYZ - you have taken courses on the subject? ".

Your answer is:

  * "blah blah blah blah blah ..lots of juicy details about the cool stuff you learned." 
  * "blah blah blah, where you learned it from" 
  * "blah blah what you did in the course" 
  * "yada yada, here's an essay I wrote, citing sources".
  * "foo bar baz I got a article published in a magazine or did a talk at XYZ"
  * "I built this thing for XYZ ..check out these pictures"

Your answer is not:

  * "Here's my credential in XYZ"

Scenario 2 you're hanging at a local meetup for XYZ, you know, "doing the networking"

Someone says "FOO in XYZ subject is cool"

You say: "No doubt! I took a course on on XYZ on coursera. I did a whole section on FOO, it was sweet"

You do not say : "here's my credential"

Scenario 4 you're on a date

You do not say : "here's my credential(s)"[1]

Scenario 5 you're hanging with your significant other, having a intellectual discussion (I guess the date in #4 went well)

You do not say : "blah blah blah - I have credential(s) - yada yada, I'm right"[2]

[1] whatever credential(s) is a euphemism for -- you can never lead with this on a date :) :) :).

[2] this never works

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#76

Post by rocha » Sun, May 31, 2015, 6:16 PM UTC

alexashka wrote: post #51

Well that's what happens when you are trying to do charity AND make money - it doesn't make sense. Either it is free, or it is for profit. You have to choose which. Khan Academy is free. MIT Courses on youtube are free. These websites that want you to sign up, only be able to view courses at certain times, etc etc. Please, just give me youtube links and pdf/slides and have a forum for discussion. This is not hard, yo…

Learning is more than watching videos. Coursera, edX and other providers provide automatic graded exercises, discussion forums, peer-grading assessments, etc.

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#77

Post by verbin217 » Sun, May 31, 2015, 6:18 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #24

kiloreux wrote: post #6

While what the OP mentioned is True , what i really think is that the real value of MOOCs is not in the certificate (it not that much important especially from MOOC providers) but the opportunity that it creates for people to gain knowledge , and personally speaking , MOOCs have changed my life , i live in 3rd world country where the quality of education is worse than you can imagine, but thanks to Coursera, Edx and…

This is a really great observation. For many people they have been raised that it doesn't count unless you get the certificate. That has elements of truth to it in the job market, you need an independent third party to say that you have learned the material. However, for just as many people it has really about accelerating their ability to be effective by rapidly absorbing the knowledge and learning of people that ha…

IMHO this is what distinguishes exceptional software engineers. They're not just trying to get a job, do well in their classes or otherwise satisfy external ideals. They just want to experience their own excellence as an end in itself. In the job market pretension is extremely effective. You can likely make a better living by optimizing appearances and neglecting actuality. If you're not able to evaluate a person's abilities you desperately need an independent third party. Notably, this doesn't imply that it's an effective pedagogical practice.

A person simply intent on becoming more than yesterday has no one to fool. Their capacity for self-evaluation is preserved. They can enter into an autodidactic loop that isn't utterly bound on I/O. I suspect this is much more effective than traditional education, albeit much less convergent and measurable.

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#78

Post by wolfgke » Sun, May 31, 2015, 6:19 PM UTC

andyidsinga wrote: post #75

riffraff wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took a Modern History class on coursera[0] how would I show proof of it? I also took one in macro economics, which also seems somewhat hard to show :) Some subjects are inherently less practical and/or difficult to produce evidence for. [0] which was among the best of more than a dozen classes I've taken across a few MOOCs, highly recommended! https://www.coursera.org/course/modernworld

Okay, good, so lets play this out a bit. You're claiming these courses, and you also claim you did well and learned something. So... Scenario 1 you're interviewing for a job: Interviewer has knowledge and experience in the area of question. They ask you "tell me about XYZ - you have taken courses on the subject? ". Your answer is : * "blah blah blah blah blah ..lots of juicy details about the cool stuff you learned."…

Scenario 6 you're interviewing for a job and personnel manager has hardly any knowledge about the topic (very usual).

Personnel manager: "You claim that you have knowledge in [topic]. What do you have to prove this kind of knowledge?

Me: "I attended course in [provider] and completed it successfully with distinction. Here's the certificate..."

Scenario 7 - again job interview

Personnel manager: "You claim that you very actively continue to educate yourself. What can you offer to prove you claim?"

Me: "Here's a list of certificates that I earned on Coursera for the last year alone. These show my individual initiative in self-improvement in quite a range of skills that could be important for the job."

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#79

Post by aheilbut » Sun, May 31, 2015, 6:19 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #60

aheilbut wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For now.

Yeah it is free for now, there are no guarantees about the future (death and taxes excepted and then I am not even sure about death), but why would you make that comment? The MOOCs don't owe you anything, they are providing the equivalent of a university degree for no cost, so why so negative?

I think there are conflicting incentives, and we've seen how these things tend to play out. It's really the universities and the professors teaching the classes who are providing the courses, and they need to be careful that they don't inadvertently put all this material into a walled garden under the assumption that they're giving it away to the world.

Re: Coursera is phasing out free certificates

#80

Post by nitrogen » Sun, May 31, 2015, 6:28 PM UTC

wolfgke wrote: post #78

andyidsinga wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, good, so lets play this out a bit. You're claiming these courses, and you also claim you did well and learned something. So... Scenario 1 you're interviewing for a job: Interviewer has knowledge and experience in the area of question. They ask you "tell me about XYZ - you have taken courses on the subject? ". Your answer is : * "blah blah blah blah blah ..lots of juicy details about the cool stuff you learned."…

Scenario 6 you're interviewing for a job and personnel manager has hardly any knowledge about the topic (very usual). Personnel manager: "You claim that you have knowledge in [topic]. What do you have to prove this kind of knowledge? Me: "I attended course in [provider] and completed it successfully with distinction. Here's the certificate..." Scenario 7 - again job interview Personnel manager: "You claim that you ve…

Alternate answer: "The increasingly difficult and diverse projects I have completed drew on all of the new knowledge I was gaining, and speak for themselves."