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Direct Train to Europe: London to the Mediterranean

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Direct Train to Europe: London to the Mediterranean

#51

Post by walterbell »

david-given wrote: post #35
EliRivers wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if you're just transiting. Sterile transit just plain doesn't exist at US airports (or at least, didn't when I last checked, which was a few years ago - maybe things are different now?), so changing planes takes bloody hours instead of minutes, and requires going through exit procedures and then coming back through security.

The last time I did a transit through Heathrow I was horrified to discover that they've stopped doing proper transit as well. Entry procedures and security, and it's not like Heathrow does this well at the best of times. At least I didn't have to pick up my luggage.

What happened to buses between terminals?

Re: Direct Train to Europe: London to the Mediterranean

#52

Post by david-given »

walterbell wrote: post #51
david-given wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time I did a transit through Heathrow I was horrified to discover that they've stopped doing proper transit as well. Entry procedures and security, and it's not like Heathrow does this well at the best of times. At least I didn't have to pick up my luggage.

What happened to buses between terminals?

Luckily I didn't need to change terminal --- it was all T5 for me.

Re: Direct Train to Europe: London to the Mediterranean

#53

Post by walterbell »

david-given wrote: post #52
walterbell wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened to buses between terminals?

Luckily I didn't need to change terminal --- it was all T5 for me.

Usually you can take a bus between terminals and transit without clearing UK immigration, just hand luggage security. It used to be the same for T5 in-terminal transit. Security check is needed because of variance in origin country security. UK border checks are so slow that I can't imagine them wanting the cost of processing transit traffic.

Re: Direct Train to Europe: London to the Mediterranean

#54

Post by a8da6b0c91d »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #13
protomyth wrote: post #2

"After 9/11 air travel started to become far more time-consuming - for reasons of security which no one would ever criticise. People used to say no-one wanted to be on a train for more than three hours but I think four would now be more accurate." I'm with you on the 4 hours, but I would be happy to criticize the security theater after 9/11.

"no-one wanted to be on a train for more than three hours" Why is it so? People easily tolerate 3h on a plane, and trains are much more comfortable than planes (more space, free to roam). And you don't have to get to airport, get from airport, check in, wait for baggage. I would say 5 hours should be non-issue. "As a rail enthusiast I would love to see trains to Berlin or Milan or even Moscow. But realistically that…

This is why I'm skeptical about the importance of high speed rail. Normal speed rail is fine in today's world because the main thing people need is solid broadband. Just make the cars really comfortable provide rock solid broadband. Business class passengers wouldn't even mind six hour trips if pretty much the whole thing was billable and comfortable, and the schedule was totally reliable with fast boarding.

Re: Direct Train to Europe: London to the Mediterranean

#55

Post by Alphasite_ »

walterbell wrote: post #53
david-given wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily I didn't need to change terminal --- it was all T5 for me.

Usually you can take a bus between terminals and transit without clearing UK immigration, just hand luggage security. It used to be the same for T5 in-terminal transit. Security check is needed because of variance in origin country security. UK border checks are so slow that I can't imagine them wanting the cost of processing transit traffic.

The automated gates are extremely fast.

Re: Direct Train to Europe: London to the Mediterranean

#56

Post by sasvari »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #38
detaro wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I see here in Germany, 5h train rides are not an issue for many people. It's just that on major routes, flying is very competitive. I don't like the fact, but flying is cheaper in many cases, and inside the EU security is (in my experience) not that annoying. I mean, I have a 50% rebate card and even inside Germany, there are quite a scenarios where trains are only cheaper than flying if I take regional tra…

This may definitely be an issue. Increased prices leading to decline in ridership leading to even more increased prices until it's dead.

At least in Germany this is not true, train ridership is on a steady rise [0]: DB serviced 14 million passengers more in 2014 compared to the previous year.

[0] http://www.deutschebahn.com/de/konzern/im_blickpunkt/9010944...

Re: Direct Train to Europe: London to the Mediterranean

#57

Post by guard-of-terra »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #54
guard-of-terra wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"no-one wanted to be on a train for more than three hours" Why is it so? People easily tolerate 3h on a plane, and trains are much more comfortable than planes (more space, free to roam). And you don't have to get to airport, get from airport, check in, wait for baggage. I would say 5 hours should be non-issue. "As a rail enthusiast I would love to see trains to Berlin or Milan or even Moscow. But realistically that…

This is why I'm skeptical about the importance of high speed rail. Normal speed rail is fine in today's world because the main thing people need is solid broadband. Just make the cars really comfortable provide rock solid broadband. Business class passengers wouldn't even mind six hour trips if pretty much the whole thing was billable and comfortable, and the schedule was totally reliable with fast boarding.

It depends on your definition of "normal speed". If it's 80 km/hour, then it is limited to regional rail or sleeper overnight trains. If it's 150 km/hour, it's already kind of fast if you ask me.

Re: Direct Train to Europe: London to the Mediterranean

#58

Post by guard-of-terra »

sasvari wrote: post #56
guard-of-terra wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may definitely be an issue. Increased prices leading to decline in ridership leading to even more increased prices until it's dead.

At least in Germany this is not true, train ridership is on a steady rise [0]: DB serviced 14 million passengers more in 2014 compared to the previous year. [0] http://www.deutschebahn.com/de/konzern/im_blickpunkt/9010944...

We still need to separate commuter rail, regional and intercity. Intercity is smallest on the basis of ridership but it makes up with distance travelled, ticket prices and economic importance.

Re: Direct Train to Europe: London to the Mediterranean

#59

Post by willyt »

switch007 wrote: post #26
bnegreve wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I have to choose between a 2 hour flight and a 4 hours train ride, I choose the train. I hate airport security and I find it impossible to do anything in a plane. I agree that flying is generally cheaper though.

It's rarely a choice on that scale in/between England/Scotland, though. London-Scotland is ~4-5 hours on the train, or a 1h-1h15m flight. EDIT: London-Manchester is probably a good example of a good and popular train journey. While other domestic flights over the years have lost out to rail, London-Scotland by plane has remained popular. London-Paris is better, at 50 min flight vs 2 hour train. By the way, I'm not ar…

I don't think the difference is as big as you think it is e.g Central London to Central Glasgow.

Tube 30mins -> Euston 4h15m -> Glasgow Central -> 10m cab ride = 4h55m

Tube 30mins -> Liverpool St 45m -> Stanstead 1h -> Fly 1hr -> security/reclaim 30mins -> 20min cab ride =4h05m

But on the train you get 4 hrs uninterrupted work time and first class is often only £10-20 extra and gets you unlimited free food, booze and wifi. Way better value than a BA flight

Re: Direct Train to Europe: London to the Mediterranean

#60

Post by moschlar »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #14

I find it fascinating that much of the hold up is having multiple signalling systems for each country in their train. Is there a web site that talks about the different systems in some more detail? I've been following Caltrain's installation of new signalling (in theory to support more frequent trains and the high speed rail service) and was surprised to find them as complicated as they are.

At least for German signalling rules, these sites are trying to explain it in English: http://www.sh1.org/eisenbahn/index.htm or http://www.joernpachl.de/German_principles.htm (Railway Engineering professor)
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