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Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

nytimes.com

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Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#521

Post by ubernostrum »

soup10 wrote: post #411
cryoshon wrote: post #97

FTA: "Judge Forrest told Mr. Urlbricht that “what you did in connection with Silk Road was terribly destructive to our social fabric.”" Can't help but counter this claim by stating that buying drugs via Silk Road is probably not very destructive in any sane analysis, especially compared to street level drug dealing. There's no corners to hold, no rivals to fight with territory over, no deals to go bad, no real access…

Edit: I didn't know he ordered ordered 5 hits before writing this post, but i'm going to leave it up. I guess he got desperate and crazy towards the end Seriously. The way he invokes the words "our social fabric" makes it out like Forrest was personally affected. It's easy to imagine Urlbricht rehabilitating and becoming a productive member of society but instead his life has just been destroyed. It's not justice and…

I didn't know he ordered ordered 5 hits before writing this post, but i'm going to leave it up. I guess he got desperate and crazy towards the end

Just to throw out an observation: the idea that being in this business kicked off a spiral of actions which led to him being "crazy and desperate" to the point of trying to have people killed is precisely the argument that's been made by people who support the drug war, about the slippery slope of consequences that follow from getting involved with drugs.

I am not sure why someone who so perfectly embodies the other side's narrative is being held up as a shining heroic example by supporters of legalization.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#522

Post by icebraining »

tptacek wrote: post #451
icebraining wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know he had solicited murder (it's not mentioned in the short article linked) so I was wondering what made a glorified drug dealer middleman deserve life in prison. But the thing is: he wasn't even convicted for that!

He was convicted of the charge to which that allegation was formally attached.

Yes, but he can still be convicted for that in Maryland, right? So massively inflating this sentence due to the murder-for-hire allegations sounds like potentially convicting him twice for the same crime.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#523

Post by jhildings »

omegaham wrote: post #318
pakled_engineer wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that theory would only stand if you lived in Russia, were politically connected, never left Russian territories, and never allowed any sales to CIS/Russian territories. Note the part about being politically connected because the Russian militsia (or w/e they are called these days) will simply be tipped off by the FBI to your whereabouts and go shake you down for hefty taxes. Even if two countries official…

I think that it might be possible to set up a dark market (and even then, it's unlikely). The problem is making money off of it. You have to spend the money somewhere, after all. And unlike cash, which is very difficult to trace, spending Bitcoins can be tracked. "Gee, the wallet that everyone pays money to is spending it on X, Y, and Z! I wonder whom that's for!"

Well you could create a new wallet for each transaction that is still controlled by the owner right ?

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#524

Post by nitrogen »

jensen123 wrote: post #517
krylon wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does the general public consider drug prohibition to be that much different than alcohol prohibition?? Because they have been told by the media, over and over, for decades. At least that's my theory. Consider how often the phrase "drugs and alcohol" is used in the general context of substance-based addiction. Because it is socially accepted. Being a connoisseur of fine wines or whiskey is something many people…

My theory is that the media tells people what they want to hear, in order to sell the most papers, page impressions etc. If they told stuff that the general public disagreed with, then they would probably lose readers/viewers. Alcohol has a long tradition in the western civilization, so people feel somewhat comfortable with that. Other drugs probably seem very new and scary to the average guy.

My theory is that the media tells people what they want to hear, in order to sell the most papers, page impressions etc. If they told stuff that the general public disagreed with, then they would probably lose readers/viewers.

There is a feedback cycle, where the media both manipulates and responds to public opinion.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#525

Post by rat87 »

jensen123 wrote: post #516
civilian wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Licensed & regulated dealers (aka pharmacies) would be great. In regards to the harm from drugs-- I'd add the obvious point that prohibition comes with a really high cost. I recently did dry-january and I was really happy with the results of cutting back on my drinking. I wake up more rested, and had more energy in the evenings. I've been thinking that going totally dry might be a good thing to do in my life. But wou…

> Why does the general public consider drug prohibition to be that much different than alcohol prohibition?? The average IQ of most western countries, including the US, is around 100. That's probably significantly lower than the average reader here on Hacker News. I'm not sure if a person with an IQ of 100 ever asks themselves intelligent questions like yours...

May I reccomend http://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart/top/ to you?

Also you're assuming some sort of strong correlation between IQ or some other measure of intelligence and good political judgement.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#526

Post by rtpg »

itistoday2 wrote: post #317
tzs wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying drugs don't hurt anyone? Even the most ardent proponent of full legalization usually acknowledges that many drugs are very harmful--they just believe the people should be free to do things even if they are harmful to themselves. I generally support decriminalization or even legalization, but I would be reluctant to allow internet sales. I'd require sales to be through licensed dealers and in person,…

> Are you implying drugs don't hurt anyone? Drugs, like spoons, hurt people. Some other items that kill people include: Cars. Motorcycles. Trees. Water. Too much air. Too little air. People. Dogs. Sticks. Bath tubs. Guns. In the end, drugs are no more inherently harmful than any of the items listed above. What usually kills people, however, is not drugs, but things associated with drugs that exist only because we hav…

Do you seriously think people wouldn't OD on drugs if there were legal sources?

People ruin their lives pretty well currently with highly addictive drugs, and I don't see how increasing supply would stop that from happening.

You can be clever that sticks kill people all you want, but that's completely sidestepping why people are worried about drug legalization: many drugs have extremely well documented negative effects on people, and these effects end up affecting others as well (hence "no smoking in public places'-style laws), and it has a real cost to society (hospitalisation, and just the human cost). Last I checked Sticks aren't that costly to civilisation in recent times.

Trying to be clever with semantics won't convince anyone of anything.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#528

Post by rtpg »

fleitz wrote: post #337
TeMPOraL wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference in degree and in kind. Water does not create addiction that forces you to consume it in amounts that are seriously harmful to your health. It's not true that areas unsafe for swimming are not marked - they are; moreover, there's both infrastructure in place to increase safety (e.g. lifeguards) and a significant amount of effort put towards educating people about the dangers of things like jumping…

Also, can you please avoid drinking water for the next 4 days... I think you might be addicted, if you're not addicted you won't show any signs of withdrawl. Addicts suffering from water withdrawl often drink amounts that are unsafe for their health which is why marathon runners have to be given water adulterated with mind altering metals like sodium and highly toxic chlorine to make it safe for them to drink. It's k…

A property of addiction includes the implicit notion that you consume much more than you need, to a point of actively harming yourself.

We talk about food addiction when people eat way too mcuh, not when people eat a proper amount to survive.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#529

Post by 6d0debc071 »

> Judge Forrest told Mr. Urlbricht that “what you did in connection with Silk Road was terribly destructive to our social fabric.”

Certainly his actions were destructive to a social fabric, or elements thereof. However, I don't think that anyone of good sense takes too seriously the nightmarish visions of a total collapse of order that Forrest's words summon to mind if the site had been left to run. The alternatives do not reduce to the current structure of a fabric and no fabric at all.

Nor does the charge itself make any particular sense, at least in terms of ideals to hold to. Progress is always built on the destruction, partial or total, of a previous way of life. Thus, when destruction becomes impossible, the liabilities that history places upon us, both in terms of mistakes and in terms of functions which no longer match the demands of life, come to dominate all attempts to adapt society to a more fitting form.

The sentence is, at least on those grounds, a farce. Some social fabrics should be destroyed - that something better may take their place. I'm not going to advocate either way on whether that's the case here, but to imprison someone simply because they perform an act with such a function is to reduce yourself to a tyrant.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#530

Post by j1vms »

Sentencing, based solely on creating/running the site, has more to do with the difficulty of finding, investigating and prosecuting these cases and therefore the value of harsh sentencing as a deterent to other current or would be offenders.

Effect might perhaps be to drive others who are or want to do this stuff to operate from Russia or other harder to reach places. It might have been wiser to keep him operating and under long term surveillance, and as such indirectly control the beast he created.

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