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Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

nytimes.com

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Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#241

Post by codecamper »

knodi123 wrote: post #103
codecamper wrote: post #53

Amazing. Write software, make billions. Write some other software, get life in prison.

Incredible. Fire a gun at a deer, get meat. Fire a gun at a baby, get life in prison. Intransigent. Set a log on fire, keep warm. Set a house on fire, get convicted of insurance fraud and arson.

I was just thinking what it may have been like from his perspective. To him, it was the same set of actions as was required to start something like AirBnb or some such. You write software. You get your initial users, etc. You get feedback & you loop.

With the same set of actions & work, pointing in a different direction, he could have done quite well for himself working on another idea.

I'm guessing his biggest downfall really was in having an aversion to working with others. He could work with others at a startup and make some great stuff & quite possibly do well. Instead, he chose a more sure fire approach to making money on his own -- with the morality and legality of what he was doing as the cost.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#242

Post by jMyles »

Spooky23 wrote: post #201
smhenderson wrote: post #13

That seems way too harsh to me. I have strong opinions on the US War on Drugs and it's failure to meaningful deal with drug use/abuse in the USA. And I feel even worse about how it's spilling out into the rest of the world as we go "global" with everything. I can't say I know every detail of the case but I don't recall anyone getting killed or even hurt by Mr. Ulbricht so in my mind the punishment does not fit the cr…

He ordered the killings of 6 people. Even by the bloodiest of bleeding heart standards, contract killing isn't some victimless crime.

Not everyone is convinced this happened.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#243

Post by BoardsOfCanada »

bkeroack wrote: post #181
BoardsOfCanada wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I see. unfortunately there is no "killing for pay" in the document you linked either. Just stop making shit up.

It's right there on page 3 ("II. Background A. The Murder-For-Hire Evidence") and continues for quite some length. I'm not a lawyer and haven't been following the case, but if he was convicted of what the government alleges in this section it pretty much eliminates the "non-violent" argument.

No no no. You (or the one you replied to) said he was sentenced for murder. And I think we agree now that he wasn't, right?

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#244

Post by defen »

rhino369 wrote: post #164
gr8b8m8-88 wrote: post #86

So let's get this straight for the justice system: 1. misleading the American public into going to a series of costly wars through lies about WMDs -> not punishable 2. Weakening Glass-Stegal and encouraging questionable and irresponsible risk-taking at major banking institutions -> not punishable 3. Fraudulent evaluation of risk-ratings by trusted agencies for the sake of profit leading to worst financial disaster si…

1. There is no evidence to support purposeful lying about WMDs. Bush admin rushed the intelligence agency and relied on Yes Men to build their story. I'm sure there was some law breaking going on but good luck identifying who what and when. 2. Glass Stegal wouldn't have prevented shit. In fact the combination banks Glass Stegal would have prevented--BoA and Chase--were the banks who were strong enough to absorb the s…

Maybe a better example is the tobacco companies. They were convicted of a 50 year conspiracy to mislead the public about the health dangers of smoking, an activity that has led to trillions of dollars in health care costs and the deaths of literally millions of people in that span (in the US alone). No one went to jail for this...the companies "just" had to pay a $200 billion dollar fine (global annual tobacco sales revenue is estimated at $500 billion).

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#245

Post by omegaham »

Retric wrote: post #133
thornofmight wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person Ross hired as a hitman was an undercover agent who had been befriending Ross online for over a year.

This may have qualified as entrapment which could be why he was not brought up on charges for this. Still, IMO it is reasonable to bring that up as a character issue.

I don't think that qualifies as entrapment.

In general, entrapment is when the police convince you to commit a crime that you wouldn't have committed otherwise. So, if you want to kill your wife, and your friend (FBI agent) happens to say one day, "Hey, I do a little killing on the side, just for gits and shiggles," and you hire him, that's not entrapment.

In contrast, if the agent is manipulating you and saying, "Hey, your wife is going to divorce you and take your stuff. Killing her is the only way to prevent ruin" and slowly convincing you to do it, then that's entrapment.

Bottom line: Already predisposed to doing the crime and probably would have gone through with it if it hadn't been the police? You're screwed. In contrast, if you're normally completely innocent and the person has to convince you to commit the crime, it's entrapment.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#247

Post by mindslight »

drcode wrote: post #207
mindslight wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the thoughtpolice have gotten pretty intense lately. Still, I think he'll be fine on this topic. BTW, that argument is like Agorism 101.

I'd be curious to know if there is really an "Agorism 101" type website that says it's preferable for a business owner to use murder as part of their business dealings, as opposed to relying on a central authority to enforce laws.

It's clearly less efficient for all involved, so it's obviously not "preferable". The problem is that all the usual avenues of justice are unavailable.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#248

Post by tghw »

tshaddox wrote: post #36

> Judge Forrest told Mr. Urlbricht that “what you did in connection with Silk Road was terribly destructive to our social fabric.” That's one of the most ridiculous claims I have seen in a while.

Exactly. If anything, Silk Road seems to have made both acquiring and taking drugs safer. Prohibition doesn't work, so why not take steps to make the things people are going to do anyway safer, especially when they can only injure themselves?

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#249

Post by javert »

civilian wrote: post #58
wvenable wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People have a right to buy drugs. Actually they don't, which is kind of the point.

We're discussing rights given to us by the Laws of Nature, as understood by our founding fathers, not the meager rights dolled out by the federal government.

Speaking as someone who's on your side in this debate...

Rights are what you get if a bunch of rational, self-interested people get together and say, "What ought we be allowed to do without interference?"

There is a single, correct, rational answer to that: you ought to be allowed to do anything that doesn't initiate force against someone else. All rights are a function of that single fundamental observation.

Every rational, fully self-interested person (who has studied the topic a lot) will agree on this.

So that's where rights come from... they are a human construct, but there's also a single, objectively correct answer.

So they don't come from "Laws of Nature" or the Founding Fathers.

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