Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison • Hacker News Board

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#171

Post by user_0001 » Fri, May 29, 2015, 9:12 PM UTC

drcode wrote: post #32

smhenderson wrote: post #13

That seems way too harsh to me. I have strong opinions on the US War on Drugs and it's failure to meaningful deal with drug use/abuse in the USA. And I feel even worse about how it's spilling out into the rest of the world as we go "global" with everything. I can't say I know every detail of the case but I don't recall anyone getting killed or even hurt by Mr. Ulbricht so in my mind the punishment does not fit the cr…

You have to understand that the "murder for hire" evidence was introduced as part of the trial (at which point Ross' lawyer could have disputed it, but didn't) so it could be used as part of the sentencing decision... and that kind of takes the luster off of the "non-violent crime" argument.

He should have called it collateral damage. Isn't that the term preferred for killing people that get in your way, but is a legally sanctioned killing and not prosecutable?

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#172

Post by wutbrodo » Fri, May 29, 2015, 9:12 PM UTC

BoardsOfCanada wrote: post #124

dragonwriter wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The murder for hire scheme was the second overt act charged in Count One (an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy is an element of conspiracy.) [0] [0] see p. 5 of the indictment: http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao-sdny/legacy/...

So a murder is hidden under a less serious offence? Just search for the phrase murder in the document you linked. How many hits? Zero

Dude, it's right at the very beginning of the exact page that he linked you. The fact that it says "murder-for-hire" with hyphens doesn't somehow make it not say "murder".

EDIT: Whoops I see that zorpner said basically the exact same thing just a couple minutes before me.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#173

Post by peeters » Fri, May 29, 2015, 9:12 PM UTC

murbard2 wrote: post #116

dragonwriter wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gross miscarriage of justice. People have a right to buy drugs. Legally, they do not. If you have a problem with that, take it up with (relevant to the federal laws at issue here) the Congress.

That's very unlikely to work, now what?

Now you continue to not have the legal right to buy illegal drugs.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#174

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, May 29, 2015, 9:12 PM UTC

BoardsOfCanada wrote: post #151

dragonwriter wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So a murder is hidden under a less serious offence? No. Soliciting a killing for pay ("murder for hire" in informal terms) as an act to advance a conspiracy is included (hardly "hidden") as one of the alleged overt acts in furtherance of the conspiracy, at least one of which must have been found by a juror to have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to vote to convict on the conspiracy charge.

Oh I see. unfortunately there is no "killing for pay" in the document you linked either. Just stop making shit up.

> unfortunately there is no "killing for pay" in the document you linked either.

Actually the document uses the phrase "murder-for-hire".

Your word search probably failed because its an image scan and has no searchable text.

You actually need to read it. Which should be helped by the fact that where I linked it, I told you where in the document the murder-for-hire scheme was addressed.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#175

Post by tinkerrr » Fri, May 29, 2015, 9:12 PM UTC

smhenderson wrote: post #13

That seems way too harsh to me. I have strong opinions on the US War on Drugs and it's failure to meaningful deal with drug use/abuse in the USA. And I feel even worse about how it's spilling out into the rest of the world as we go "global" with everything. I can't say I know every detail of the case but I don't recall anyone getting killed or even hurt by Mr. Ulbricht so in my mind the punishment does not fit the cr…

In addition to the murders for hire that the other commentators mentioned, the prosecution presented 6 case studies of people dying because of drug overdoses/other related effects of drugs bought on silk road. The prosecution also had two parents in two of these cases come to court to give a statement, one from Boston and one from Australia.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#176

Post by wyager » Fri, May 29, 2015, 9:13 PM UTC

michaelby wrote: post #84

Everyone seems to be looking at this as some sort of travesty of justice. However, there is significant evidence that he tried to order hits on people. While there's no (public) evidence that he successfully murdered anyone, he clearly had lost his regard for human life. We're in a day and age where people can cause tremendous harm to others using their mind alone, without throwing a punch or pulling a trigger. Just…

This sentencing had nothing to do with the alleged hiring of a hitman. That accusation should have absolutely no bearing on this sentence.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#177

Post by Cushman » Fri, May 29, 2015, 9:13 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #25

javert wrote: post #12

Gross miscarriage of justice. People have a right to buy drugs. Every single government actor involved in this case is far more guilty than Ross and, frankly, they are the ones that deserve prison. Yes, Ross should have realized you can't massively break the law and get away with it. He made a big mistake. But the mistake he made was assuming that other people were more benevolent than they really are. This young man…

> Gross miscarriage of justice. People have a right to buy drugs. Legally, they do not. If you have a problem with that, take it up with (relevant to the federal laws at issue here) the Congress.

This comment defines the middlebrow dismissal.

Unless you live in a jurisdiction where the purchase of narcotics is legal (Mars?) the meaning of "People have a right to buy drugs" is quite clear.

In a world where the laws you invoke are responsible for so much suffering and death, to come in with a "Well, legally" and pretend the moral dimension does not exist is... well, I've already said what that is.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#178

Post by marssaxman » Fri, May 29, 2015, 9:13 PM UTC

fat0wl wrote: post #113

Nadya wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See: Portugal Instead of imprisoning for drug usage - provide treatment and rehab. It's cheaper and has better results. One could argue culture differences in drug usage, but that looks like an attempt to "knock it before you try it". That's without going into how broken the US prison system is! See: privately owned prisons that require a quota to be filled [0]. [0] http://www.inthepublicinterest.org/article/criminal…

There is a huge legal difference between getting caught doing drugs vs facilitating the trafficking of mass quantities of controlled substances. I don't think casual marijuana smokers should get all up in arms like "hey man they are just going after everybody now!", do they offer the same support to heroin cartels? Even if you're against the war on drugs I don't think you should really take it as a personal slight wh…

If people are going to take drugs, somebody has to produce and distribute them. It doesn't make much sense to me that possession and consumption of drugs should be legal but manufacture and distribution shouldn't. Regulation would be nice, but the state is falling down on its duty there.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#179

Post by BoardsOfCanada » Fri, May 29, 2015, 9:13 PM UTC

zorpner wrote: post #162

BoardsOfCanada wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a murder is hidden under a less serious offence? Just search for the phrase murder in the document you linked. How many hits? Zero

Page 5, line 4. I do look forward to you blaming a broken search tool for your failure to bother reading the document before arguing about it, though.

Yes, you're right. If you'll find pleasure in it, chrome did not find the word though. Thanks.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#180

Post by teraflop » Fri, May 29, 2015, 9:13 PM UTC

iM8t wrote: post #10

collinvandyck76 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ulbricht was also convicted of hiring a hitman. edit: this is something that vice news [0] reported that is apparently wrong. > But despite these setbacks, Ulbricht was ultimately convicted in February on a raft of charges, including drug trafficking, computer hacking, money laundering, and hiring assassins to take out members of Silk Road. [0]: https://news.vice.com/article/ross-ulbricht-convicted-master...

Do we actually have any proof of that or is it just something that the media is feeding us?

If by "proof" you mean "evidence", there are journal entries from DPR's laptop describing the attempted killings, records of messages between him and the would-be killer, and Bitcoin transaction records of the sizable payments involved. It certainly wasn't invented by the media.