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Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

nytimes.com

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Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#161

Post by alexisnorman »

jjcm wrote: post #24

It's interesting. On one hand, if a leader of a traditional drug distribution network landed a life in prison sentence, I wouldn't have thought twice about it. With Silkroad though, I'm actually convinced by the defendants argument: that it provided safer, more trustworthy drugs to users. I've had friends who've died from purchasing bad drugs at raves from people who were looking to make money and run. In one situati…

  With darknet markets and independent lab testing networks, this type of thing doesn't happen.
I agree that darknet markets are safer than traditional drug markets, but the poisoning risks can still apply. There was recently a huge flux of PMA being distributed as molly on Agora and other markets from sellers who have known to be reputable in the past. If you know anyone that is purchasing this stuff, encourage them to always test it themselves before using.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#162

Post by zorpner »

BoardsOfCanada wrote: post #124
dragonwriter wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The murder for hire scheme was the second overt act charged in Count One (an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy is an element of conspiracy.) [0] [0] see p. 5 of the indictment: http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao-sdny/legacy/...

So a murder is hidden under a less serious offence? Just search for the phrase murder in the document you linked. How many hits? Zero

Page 5, line 4. I do look forward to you blaming a broken search tool for your failure to bother reading the document before arguing about it, though.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#163

Post by serve_yay »

Nadya wrote: post #114
serve_yay wrote: post #11

> But prosecutors, in their memo, argued that praising Silk Road for “harm reduction measures” was “akin to applauding a heroin dealer for handing out a clean needle with every dime bag: The point is that he has no business dealing drugs in the first place.” Lovely.

Mistaking some delusional world of zero crime doesn't do any good for people living in reality. That 'moral dealer' who hands out clean needles would be doing good. I guess the moral high-ground is ignoring the number of users who die or contract diseases from dirty needles? That's a pretty fucked perspective. I see an issue with treating drug users (esp. recreational drug users) as somehow "less than human" because…

Yes exactly, the reasoning proceeds from this silly world of "shoulds" which does not actually exist. In the actually-existing world, people buy drugs, and so there is value in addressing that demand as safely as possible. Instead we have cynical people like these, talking about how the real right thing is to just not sell drugs at all.

(And that's not even getting into the issue of whether we should be allowed to have drugs as supposedly free people)

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#164

Post by rhino369 »

gr8b8m8-88 wrote: post #86

So let's get this straight for the justice system: 1. misleading the American public into going to a series of costly wars through lies about WMDs -> not punishable 2. Weakening Glass-Stegal and encouraging questionable and irresponsible risk-taking at major banking institutions -> not punishable 3. Fraudulent evaluation of risk-ratings by trusted agencies for the sake of profit leading to worst financial disaster si…

1. There is no evidence to support purposeful lying about WMDs. Bush admin rushed the intelligence agency and relied on Yes Men to build their story. I'm sure there was some law breaking going on but good luck identifying who what and when.

2. Glass Stegal wouldn't have prevented shit. In fact the combination banks Glass Stegal would have prevented--BoA and Chase--were the banks who were strong enough to absorb the shitty failed banks--merill and lehman--that were often just investment banks.

Taking irresponsible risks isn't a crime either.

3) No evidence of fraud. These agencies trusted the financial models and those models didn't work.

Fuckups aren't punished in our society the way intentional law breaking is.

Should be guillotine every founder whose company fails?

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#165

Post by haberman »

anigbrowl wrote: post #131
haberman wrote: post #38

I don't know enough about this story to have an overall opinion, but this particular exchange made me angry: > His lawyer, Joshua L. Dratel, in submissions to the judge, argued that the website’s “harm reduction” ethos made it safer than traditional drug dealing on the street. > But prosecutors, in their memo, argued that praising Silk Road for “harm reduction measures” was “akin to applauding a heroin dealer for han…

Bear in mind that prosecutors have a professional duty to zealously argue the government's case just as the defense lawyers have a duty to zealously argue for innocence or lenity of their clients. Unfortunately judges no longer have that much discretion to weigh the competing arguments because of the mandatory sentencing guidelines Congress came up with. It has since been established by the Supreme Court that the gui…

My understanding is that this entire discussion is in the context of sentencing, and that the defense's argument here is in that context.

If the defense had made the harm reduction argument in the context of the guilty/not-guilty question, that would be one thing. But in the sentencing phase, it seems appropriate to take into account the actual harm of the crimes involved.

When the prosecution's answer to this discussion of harm is "it doesn't matter, it was illegal," that's when I get cranky.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#166

Post by dragonwriter »

gr8b8m8-88 wrote: post #86

So let's get this straight for the justice system: 1. misleading the American public into going to a series of costly wars through lies about WMDs -> not punishable 2. Weakening Glass-Stegal and encouraging questionable and irresponsible risk-taking at major banking institutions -> not punishable 3. Fraudulent evaluation of risk-ratings by trusted agencies for the sake of profit leading to worst financial disaster si…

> 1. misleading the American public into going to a series of costly wars through lies about WMDs -> not punishable

Debatable. The justice system hasn't found that, no charges have been filed within the justice system over them.

> Weakening Glass-Stegal and encouraging questionable and irresponsible risk-taking at major banking institutions -> not punishable

While again this is untested directly, the legislative privilege in the Constitution makes this pretty clearly not punishable through the justice system. The punishment that can be dealt out for this is at the ballot box, not through the justice system.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#167

Post by copsarebastards »

icelancer wrote: post #34
smhenderson wrote: post #13

That seems way too harsh to me. I have strong opinions on the US War on Drugs and it's failure to meaningful deal with drug use/abuse in the USA. And I feel even worse about how it's spilling out into the rest of the world as we go "global" with everything. I can't say I know every detail of the case but I don't recall anyone getting killed or even hurt by Mr. Ulbricht so in my mind the punishment does not fit the cr…

He allegedly hired someone to kill multiple people, by the way. http://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-boss... I agree with you that drug trafficking is way overprosecuted, but...

Hey everybody, icelander hired someone to kill multiple people.

Hey icelander, now you, too have allegedly hired someone to kill multiple people.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#168

Post by zanny »

deweller wrote: post #152
Cantremeber wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, it happened multiple times. Even if no one was actually killed the guy still tried to have multiple people killed.

allegedly tried to have multiple people killed. The prosecution brought this up at trial but he was not charged or convicted of this in the criminal trial.

This is the key point. He is going to spend the rest of his life in prison, pretty much, for running a website. Not for hurting anyone, not for even threatening to kill anyone - those charges weren't a part of his conviction - but simply by enabling the exchange of drugs he apparently should be locked away forever.

Go Team 'Murica....

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#169

Post by mordocai »

nemo44x wrote: post #83
civilian wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes him a sociopath?

If you are willing to consider murdering your business competition, you are probably a sociopath.

Actually, considering something has nothing to do with being a sociopath. Neither does doing something. A lack of conscience is a hallmark of a sociopath. Killing someone does not make you a sociopath. Showing no signs of conscience over the killing points toward you being a sociopath.
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