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Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

nytimes.com

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Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#121

Post by wvenable »

javert wrote: post #45
wvenable wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People have a right to buy drugs. Actually they don't, which is kind of the point.

Yes, they do, you just don't understand rights. Rights are the things that we would all agree should be legally protected if we were all rational about it. So they're a human construct, but they're still objective.

> Yes, they do, you just don't understand rights.

No, I think you're the one who doesn't seem to understand them.

> Rights are the things that we would all agree should be legally protected if we were all rational about it.

We, as a society, have a system in place to work out this sort of thing. That system has already decided that we don't have this right. If you were in fact able to convince enough people that your position is the most rational then your available rights can be changed. Your argument is valid but your conclusion is wrong based on the available facts.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#122

Post by argonaut »

wclax04 wrote: post #94

Wouldn't the USPS/FedEx/UPS also be liable as a drug courrier?

Not at all. I used to read the SR forums, and a common concern was dealing with packages getting inspected (without opening them - presumably drug sniffing dogs or some other drug detection mechanism) and then getting a letter/visit from the police. It was rare enough (and you had plausible deniability since anyone could have sent that package) that it wasn't a huge concern, though.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#123

Post by izacus »

icelancer wrote: post #34
smhenderson wrote: post #13

That seems way too harsh to me. I have strong opinions on the US War on Drugs and it's failure to meaningful deal with drug use/abuse in the USA. And I feel even worse about how it's spilling out into the rest of the world as we go "global" with everything. I can't say I know every detail of the case but I don't recall anyone getting killed or even hurt by Mr. Ulbricht so in my mind the punishment does not fit the cr…

He allegedly hired someone to kill multiple people, by the way. http://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-boss... I agree with you that drug trafficking is way overprosecuted, but...

So alleged hearsay is now enough to raise the sentence to a life in prison in US? O.o

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#124

Post by BoardsOfCanada »

dragonwriter wrote: post #104
BoardsOfCanada wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So which of the charges is it (from your link): " charging Ulbricht with seven crimes: Narcotics Trafficking (Count One), Distribution of Narcotics by Means of the Internet (Count Two), Narcotics Trafficking Conspiracy (Count Three), Continuing Criminal Enterprise (Count Four), Conspiracy to Commit and Aid and Abet Computer Hacking (Count Five), Conspiracy to Traffic in Fraudulent Identification Documents (Count Six)…

The murder for hire scheme was the second overt act charged in Count One (an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy is an element of conspiracy.) [0] [0] see p. 5 of the indictment: http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao-sdny/legacy/...

So a murder is hidden under a less serious offence? Just search for the phrase murder in the document you linked. How many hits? Zero

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#125

Post by omgitstom »

baddox wrote: post #111
omgitstom wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it did, they should be able to prove it with some data. SR shut down in 2013, did they see a cliff of less ODs / deaths in hospitals? But yea, I believe it is ridiculous as well, but the court needed to voice their opinion with the sentence.

If you want data about damage to society, just look at basically any statistic related to the war on drugs.

'what the government did in connection with the war on drugs was terribly destructive to our social fabric'

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#126

Post by geetee »

You could make an argument that the alleged murder for hire attempts were simply self defense. The consequence of being exposed is life in prison, and I don't think any of us can say with certainty how far we'd go to avoid life in prison. It's not like he was trying to have innocent bystanders murdered. If selling drugs was not a crime, there would be no opportunity for blackmail, and nobody to silence.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#128

Post by hockeybias »

gr8b8m8-88 wrote: post #86

So let's get this straight for the justice system: 1. misleading the American public into going to a series of costly wars through lies about WMDs -> not punishable 2. Weakening Glass-Stegal and encouraging questionable and irresponsible risk-taking at major banking institutions -> not punishable 3. Fraudulent evaluation of risk-ratings by trusted agencies for the sake of profit leading to worst financial disaster si…

Glad to see everything so simplified. ...I used to think things weren't so black and white. Now I know better.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#129

Post by Touche »

[deleted] wrote: post #70
drcode wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though I agree with you about the "safer drugs" argument, Ross' site was the worst possible thing that could happen to the supporters of safe, anonymous marketplaces- The evidence that he was willing to use brutal mob-style violence to support his business has yet to be disputed by anyone in a credible way.

[deleted]

Certainly any criminal can make the same argument for their use of violence, no?

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#130

Post by [deleted] »

smhenderson wrote: post #60
drcode wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to understand that the "murder for hire" evidence was introduced as part of the trial (at which point Ross' lawyer could have disputed it, but didn't) so it could be used as part of the sentencing decision... and that kind of takes the luster off of the "non-violent crime" argument.

Yeah, I've been seeing the other comments about that. As I said I'm not 100% up to speed on the details. I'd like to see more evidence that he actually was being convicted of that though and not just that it was a factor in determining sentencing. I don't doubt it's possible he was trying to contract a hit but the stories about the FBI stinging him, etc. make me a bit suspicious.

[deleted]
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