Live data from Hacker News

Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

nytimes.com

71–80 of 641 posts

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#71
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to understand that the "murder for hire" evidence was introduced as part of the trial (at which point Ross' lawyer could have disputed it, but didn't) so it could be used as part of the sentencing decision... and that kind of takes the luster off of the "non-violent crime" argument.

There was no such thing introduced for the trial. It was in the original press release, then it was withdrawn. Maybe it was because of Mark Force's transgressions, or maybe it was just for effect. Regardless, he never got the chance to defend himself against those particular allegations.

[deleted]

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#72
post #24

It's interesting. On one hand, if a leader of a traditional drug distribution network landed a life in prison sentence, I wouldn't have thought twice about it. With Silkroad though, I'm actually convinced by the defendants argument: that it provided safer, more trustworthy drugs to users. I've had friends who've died from purchasing bad drugs at raves from people who were looking to make money and run. In one situati…

Harm reduction is a reasonable argument for a Country to make for changing its drug policies, or for a person to make in an effort to advocate for a change to a Country's laws.

It is not a reasonable argument for an individual to make to try to justify their illegal get-rich scheme.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#73
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no such thing introduced for the trial. It was in the original press release, then it was withdrawn. Maybe it was because of Mark Force's transgressions, or maybe it was just for effect. Regardless, he never got the chance to defend himself against those particular allegations.

This is simply not true. Not only was the evidence introduced at trial, but it was tied to a specific charge, and considered at length by the court. https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1391...

Ok, I can't reply to the one answe saying that this isn't true but accoring to the wired articel "Ulbricht, who the prosecutors have sought to prove is that Dread Pirate Roberts, hasn’t been charged with murder-for-hire in his Southern District of New York case, though he faces charges that include conspiracies to sell narcotics, launder money and more. (He does, however, face murder-for-hire charges in a separate case in Baltimore.) " This is the NY case

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#74
post #14
post #3

My condolences go to the mutual friends Ross and I share. Honestly, I don't have much sympathy for him directly (due to his complete and utter stupidity and lack of opsec), but I know this is going to hurt some people I care about, people who were good friends with Ross back in college, and I feel bad for them .

The amount of ego in this comment is astounding

[deleted]

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#75

I don't know enough about this story to have an overall opinion, but this particular exchange made me angry: > His lawyer, Joshua L. Dratel, in submissions to the judge, argued that the website’s “harm reduction” ethos made it safer than traditional drug dealing on the street. > But prosecutors, in their memo, argued that praising Silk Road for “harm reduction measures” was “akin to applauding a heroin dealer for han…

Well, I believe the reason is because it is against the law.

On a side note, I do think if a heroin dealer gave away a clean needle, that would be commendable.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#76

> Judge Forrest told Mr. Urlbricht that “what you did in connection with Silk Road was terribly destructive to our social fabric.” That's one of the most ridiculous claims I have seen in a while.

That's the basis of the war on drugs. If it were about health soft drinks, cigarettes, junk food, and hard liquor would be treated like narcotics. If it were about preventing addiction, casinos would not be allowed to use cognitive neuroscience to optimize slot machines.

America, for all its prattle about freedom and individualism, is like most other societies an authoritarian collectivist state. Freedom is just a symbol, not a real thing.

You are allowed freedom within certain domains as long as you don't do anything too challenging to the "social fabric." If you do, a whole host both legal and quasi-legal options are deployed against you. Search for "cointelpro" for a good historical example. If you can't be legally prosecuted, you'll be quasi-legally or even illegally harassed and persecuted.

Alcohol is far worse than many illegal drugs, but it's legal because "normal" people use it. You can't make being a hippie illegal, but you can intensely prosecute certain things that hippies do. You can't make being black illegal, but you can do the same there -- crack and cocaine are exactly the same chemical, but crack carries a harsher sentence because minorities use it while rich white people largely use cocaine.

The reason a lot of this coalesced around drugs is that the constitution has nothing to say in that department. You can't ban religions, or speech, or styles of dress, but there's nothing in there about a right to sovereignty over your body, and the regulation of trade is explicitly permitted. So drugs, being something that correlates with certain cultures, serves as a wide open legal vehicle for attacking minority populations.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#77

Murderers get less than that. We are truly an interesting society, aren't we - somehow kids doing LSD, a mostly harmless substance, is causing us more harm, as a society, than, say, violence?

Ulbricht was also convicted of hiring a hitman. edit: this is something that vice news [0] reported that is apparently wrong. > But despite these setbacks, Ulbricht was ultimately convicted in February on a raft of charges, including drug trafficking, computer hacking, money laundering, and hiring assassins to take out members of Silk Road. [0]: https://news.vice.com/article/ross-ulbricht-convicted-master...

> Ulbricht was also convicted of hiring a hitman.

This is not quite true. While he was not charged in this trial with the most obvious offense that would flow from that (e.g., attempted murder, etc.), this was specifically charged as one of the overt acts of one of the conspiracy charges he was convicted of. But it wasn't the only overt act charged, and the guilty verdict doesn't include a finding on the individual overt acts charged separately. So, its not accurate to say he was convicted of hiring a hitman.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#78
post #55
post #24

It's interesting. On one hand, if a leader of a traditional drug distribution network landed a life in prison sentence, I wouldn't have thought twice about it. With Silkroad though, I'm actually convinced by the defendants argument: that it provided safer, more trustworthy drugs to users. I've had friends who've died from purchasing bad drugs at raves from people who were looking to make money and run. In one situati…

Though I agree with you about the "safer drugs" argument, Ross' site was the worst possible thing that could happen to the supporters of safe, anonymous marketplaces- The evidence that he was willing to use brutal mob-style violence to support his business has yet to be disputed by anyone in a credible way.

Given that he was creating jurisdiction from scratch, it makes sense to compare him to other such entities. USG, for example, will often murder people (overt wars and covert actions) for them simply not wanting to do business.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#79
post #37

I think the sentence is obscene. I doubt my teachers growing up, who would shriek "just say no!" at school assemblies, feel the same way. I imagine they find the idea of little Johnny being able to buy meth over the Internet terrifying. Guess who votes. It's like stoning people for adultery in the Middle East. You have to really figure out why people consider drug use such an existential threat to the community to fi…

tptacek's comment [1] makes a convincing argument that Ross's attempts to hire a hitman were a legitimate factor in his sentencing. If so, then a life sentence seems quite fair based on what I've read.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9627094

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#80
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no such thing introduced for the trial. It was in the original press release, then it was withdrawn. Maybe it was because of Mark Force's transgressions, or maybe it was just for effect. Regardless, he never got the chance to defend himself against those particular allegations.

This is simply not true. Not only was the evidence introduced at trial, but it was tied to a specific charge, and considered at length by the court. https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1391...

You're linking to a pre-trial motion, which means nothing about what actually happened during the trial.
Post reply on HN