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Ask HN: Python Enthusiast – How to get my foot through the door?

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Re: Ask HN: Python Enthusiast – How to get my foot through the door?

#21

I've met a bunch of folks who changed careers and are doing full-time development now. A fair amount of them went through one of those devlopment bootcamps like Recurse Center (ex-Hacker School). The other folks basically got their foot in the door through networking. So, I'd say those would be a couple of things to explore.

I know people who have done a Recurse Center batch, and people who have done bootcamp courses. I agree that each could potentially be a useful experience for someone changing careers, depending on the situation.

Clarification: The Recurse Center isn't a bootcamp in the sense that many people use the phrase. (There is no curriculum, it is free to attend, and many attendees were working as software engineers before their batch.)

https://www.recurse.com/blog/77-hacker-school-is-now-the-rec...

Re: Ask HN: Python Enthusiast – How to get my foot through the door?

#22
This question, and some of the responses give me the thought: Maybe there's room for a site that allows people to post the fact that they are at a stage in their career that they're willing to work for free.

They'd include useful information such as why they are prepared to contribute (such as 18 months studying python and Flask and building some personal projects), letters of reference from people who can attest to their character and smarts, etc.

Also, the site could perform such basics as a criminal check and make the results available to potential "employers" with the permission of the person who wants to get experience (he or she would OK the information dissemination for each potential one).

Just had this thought today and am wondering what people might think about it. (As it happens, I'm in the process of deciding on my next project...)

Re: Ask HN: Python Enthusiast – How to get my foot through the door?

#23
>I am really struggling with getting my foot through the door, as there is the typical catch 22 scenario, "We can't take you on board as you do not have Production centric experience"

How many applications and feelers are you sending out? The vast majority of companies are either unwilling to risk hiring a junior developer, or don't have the on-boarding and infrastructure to make use of them. With excellent set-up, you should still expect to see fewer than one in twenty companies get back to you. The application game sucks, but it's how you find the companies that can hire junior developers.

Where in the interviewing pipeline are you getting this? The best course of action is very dependent on where you're getting rejected.

My model of the pipeline: 1. Initial contact 2. Phone screen 3. Technical or coding challenge 4. On-site interview 5. Offer & salary negotiations

So, there's five different pieces of advice:

1. If you've sent out a hundred resumes and have gotten zero phone screens, I recommend working on your resume and on-paper skills. The good news is that a hundred applications like that takes 5-10 hours depending on skill and organization. Advice: make a couple small open-source web applications, and put them on the very top of your resume.

2. If you've gotten five phone screens and no technical challenges or on-sites, I recommend brushing up on self-presentation skills. Figure out a quick, one-minute story to tell about who you are and why you're an awesome self-taught programmer. Also, you could check how you're talking about yourself, and try to find areas where you're convincing people to not hire you. Self deprecating talk about lack of production experience is playing defense, not offense. Your job is offense, not defense.

3. Coding challenges are basically something you can cram for. There's programming competitions to get domain-specific expertise here. I don't have good advice since this is personally an area of natural strength. Project Euler is awesome and a great fit for Python. Challenges are a mix of live shared-editor with voice and offline ones. The shared-editor stuff is higher value since there's more commitment on their end.

4. Expect to fail the first one to four on-site interviews. The good news is that getting the first on-site is the most difficult. Anxiety, comfort levels, and lots of 'soft' skills go into interviewing well. You improve at this best by interviewing badly. Cracking the Coding Interview is a good book to use to improve here. If you have or can form a social group for this, that's even better.

On-site interviews roughly look like "put candidate in room, have someone come in and give them a whiteboard problem like something from Cracking the Coding Interview, repeat three to five times." The more you can make your practice look like this, the better. I'm talking down to wearing interview clothes, keeping the practice-interviewees in the same room and rotating interviewers, etc.

5. Don't worry about negotiation too much at this stage. If you must, I have some very general advice. First, ask for more time to make a decision - try for two weeks. Do not mention a number first. The only thing you need to say live is something like "that's a very interesting offer, let me think on it and get back to you." Do all negotiation over email or in rounds. Try to get multiple offers at the same time. Accepting an offer from the first company that gives you one is usually a mistake. (Why? Because someone who can get one offer can likely get three or more, there's a large variance in fit and compensation, and you want to accept the best offer so far. Plus, as long as you don't burn bridges, companies that have extended you an offer are willing to talk again later.)

tl;dr - Do you have projects and a good resume? If so, how many applications are you sending out?

Re: Ask HN: Python Enthusiast – How to get my foot through the door?

#24
Make stuff relevant to the places you want to work. It's both a signal of competence and of drive and caring about that place.

For example, assuming a data science team in an e-commerce retailer is hiring a Python dev: crawl their site, grab the relevant attributes (category, gender, name, price, discount), then upload a graphical, interactive representation of their inventory and a short analysis of their price structure. Do so on a page hosted on your own server (like a free AWS micro instance + $5/year for domain), then stick the code on a private repo which you share with the person you get in touch with ($7/month for 5 on Github).

You've just demonstrated both technical competence over the whole ecosystem, and that you are at least aware of the "business side". You've also probably done more than 99% of candidates for the position.

Recent example: I recently had a chat with a friend who explained to me a problem he had been having for 6 months getting a simple web tool up and running for his business. My co-founder and I knocked out a working prototype in 2 hours and sent him the link. He signed us up immediately.

I think there's a lot of less technically literate folks out there who need some work done. Think your local tailor, restaurant, whatever. You can try ask them about it and present some solutions, and some might end up paying you. It's a start, allows you to say you put something in production.

Re: Ask HN: Python Enthusiast – How to get my foot through the door?

#25
What do you do currently? I went from a BA in Econ and an MBA to software development by bringing those technical skills and applying them to whatever job I was currently doing. Those companies had a need for automation and internal applications which I was able to step up and take on those tasks. After some time, I had built up enough experience to warrant a software engineer role.

Of course, this probably works better if you are a) in a small company and b) in an area or organization that doesn't have access to many developers.

Re: Ask HN: Python Enthusiast – How to get my foot through the door?

#26
I did open source, put everything up to GitHub, participated in public discussions and I never applied for a job (except for one), they found me.

You should build something biggish in a topic you love and make it open source. It doesn't matter what it is. I did this for example: https://github.com/pokerregion/poker

Also, filling out your LinkedIn profile can help.

Re: Ask HN: Python Enthusiast – How to get my foot through the door?

#27
post #24

Make stuff relevant to the places you want to work. It's both a signal of competence and of drive and caring about that place. For example, assuming a data science team in an e-commerce retailer is hiring a Python dev: crawl their site, grab the relevant attributes (category, gender, name, price, discount), then upload a graphical, interactive representation of their inventory and a short analysis of their price stru…

Thanks so so much, for taking out of your busy time to give such insightful advice.

Re: Ask HN: Python Enthusiast – How to get my foot through the door?

#28
post #26

I did open source, put everything up to GitHub, participated in public discussions and I never applied for a job (except for one), they found me. You should build something biggish in a topic you love and make it open source. It doesn't matter what it is. I did this for example: https://github.com/pokerregion/poker Also, filling out your LinkedIn profile can help.

Thanks for the advice, most appreciated.

Re: Ask HN: Python Enthusiast – How to get my foot through the door?

#29

I'd recommend that you go to places and meet people in person with no expectations (eg. go hang out at local Python meetups, get to know people, discuss your current projects over a pint, etc.), contribute to as many open source projects as possible, and don't put too much emphasis on particular technologies (eg. lots of places won't care that you know Python in particular as much as they'll care that you understand…

Thanks, appreciate it
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