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You Draw It: How Family Income Affects College Chances

nytimes.com

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Re: You Draw It: How Family Income Affects College Chances

#11

Post by GeneralMayhem »

gtrubetskoy wrote: post #9

If your family makes just above $150K per year in the US (not uncommon, especially in high cost of living areas like NYC, SF, DC, etc), you fall in the category where you have no "need" and according to some outdated government formula can afford the whole tuition, usually 20-60K per year. The reality, however, is that 150K is the minimum living wage for a family with two kids in a place like SF, and usually not enou…

This is the case for a lot of things. Pretty much all "middle-class" tax credits phase out by the time you hit $80k, regardless of cost of living, because the IRS doesn't scale anything by zip code and so assumes that a household making 6 figures must be loaded.

Re: You Draw It: How Family Income Affects College Chances

#12

Post by tedsanders »

I hate being the typical negative commenter who points out that correlation doesn't equal causation, but in the case of this article I think it's warranted.

Just because high-income families send kids to college more does not mean that high income causes it. A recent study of Swedish lottery winners showed that the kids of lottery winners did not do better on measures of health or education, suggesting that wealth does not have a direct or short-term impact on child outcomes. [http://www.ifn.se/eng/publications/wp/2015/1060]

Re: You Draw It: How Family Income Affects College Chances

#14

Post by tedsanders »

gtrubetskoy wrote: post #9

If your family makes just above $150K per year in the US (not uncommon, especially in high cost of living areas like NYC, SF, DC, etc), you fall in the category where you have no "need" and according to some outdated government formula can afford the whole tuition, usually 20-60K per year. The reality, however, is that 150K is the minimum living wage for a family with two kids in a place like SF, and usually not enou…

No offense, but your claim is ridiculous. $150K is not the minimum living wage for a family of four in SF. Plenty of families get by on less.

Here is a map of incomes in SF: http://www.city-data.com/income/income-San-Francisco-Califor...

And here's a better map, though it doesn't seem to have household/family incomes: http://www.richblockspoorblocks.com/

Re: You Draw It: How Family Income Affects College Chances

#15

Post by mfringel »

tedsanders wrote: post #12

I hate being the typical negative commenter who points out that correlation doesn't equal causation, but in the case of this article I think it's warranted. Just because high-income families send kids to college more does not mean that high income causes it. A recent study of Swedish lottery winners showed that the kids of lottery winners did not do better on measures of health or education, suggesting that wealth do…

So... why are you doing something you hate?

Re: You Draw It: How Family Income Affects College Chances

#17

Post by rhino369 »

gtrubetskoy wrote: post #9

If your family makes just above $150K per year in the US (not uncommon, especially in high cost of living areas like NYC, SF, DC, etc), you fall in the category where you have no "need" and according to some outdated government formula can afford the whole tuition, usually 20-60K per year. The reality, however, is that 150K is the minimum living wage for a family with two kids in a place like SF, and usually not enou…

The only government subsidies that are worth anything are Pell grants and they phase out well below 150k. Also, they are limited to like 6k a year, way less than your 150k family can kick in.

The elite private schools have a similar formula that sort of screws over these people. But you have no right to an elite education. Just go to Berkeley instead of Stanford or UVA instead of Duke.

Re: You Draw It: How Family Income Affects College Chances

#18

Post by gtrubetskoy »

tedsanders wrote: post #14
gtrubetskoy wrote: post #9

If your family makes just above $150K per year in the US (not uncommon, especially in high cost of living areas like NYC, SF, DC, etc), you fall in the category where you have no "need" and according to some outdated government formula can afford the whole tuition, usually 20-60K per year. The reality, however, is that 150K is the minimum living wage for a family with two kids in a place like SF, and usually not enou…

No offense, but your claim is ridiculous. $150K is not the minimum living wage for a family of four in SF. Plenty of families get by on less. Here is a map of incomes in SF: http://www.city-data.com/income/income-San-Francisco-Califor... And here's a better map, though it doesn't seem to have household/family incomes: http://www.richblockspoorblocks.com/

If by "get by" you mean survive, then, certainly. But are they living a good comfortable life and are able to afford good food, a second car, good health insurance, good dental care, music lessons for the children, a decent family vacation and a well maintained house? Doubt it. Every hard working educated parent deserves this and being able to put their kids though college in a civilized society that the USA claims to be.

Re: You Draw It: How Family Income Affects College Chances

#19

Post by emaste »

jawns wrote: post #10

A lot of great comments here on the content and presentation. I'm really interested, also, in the technical aspects of how this was put together. For instance, the app was able to recognize the shape of the line I drew. On my first attempt, it correctly identified that my line was an S shape; then when I started fiddling around, it was able to identify that my line was (roughly) straight. I wonder what method they us…

I'm very intrigued by this as well. I tried a variety of shapes and the only ones it recognized for me were "S shaped" and "very straight."

I did get these too though:

"Your guess was extremely accurate. Is that you, Raj Chetty?"

"We’re going to be honest here: Your line was pretty odd. Did you even try?"

Re: You Draw It: How Family Income Affects College Chances

#20

Post by tedsanders »

mfringel wrote: post #15
tedsanders wrote: post #12

I hate being the typical negative commenter who points out that correlation doesn't equal causation, but in the case of this article I think it's warranted. Just because high-income families send kids to college more does not mean that high income causes it. A recent study of Swedish lottery winners showed that the kids of lottery winners did not do better on measures of health or education, suggesting that wealth do…

So... why are you doing something you hate?

That's a fair question. When many people make the correlation!=causation argument, they do so to express skepticism, often without any evidence or positive contribution to the discussion. However, in this case, I think the argument is warranted because there is a large body of evidence that suggests wealth does not directly affect whether kids go to college. I linked to one interesting study, but I can link to more if you'd like.

In any case, I hoped my comment and link added value to the discussion. If not, I'd be happy to remove them.

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