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Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

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Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#61

Post by abakker »

ender89 wrote: post #45
abakker wrote: post #39

FWIW, having been exposed/infected with Lyme disease 3 times, any vaccine would be welcome. Really. I can't stress that enough. Due to a variety of factors, including deer overpopulation(1), the Lyme disease infection rate in Deer Ticks in New England is ridiculously high. While I was undergoing treatment for the 3rd time, my doctor indicated that probably 25% of ticks in that region carry the disease. I'd be all for…

Eh, I feel like its not so bad after the first few times. I did get bell's palsy last time, and I walked around looking like a stroke victim for a bit, but not that bad all in all.

Didn't get that all the way, but started to. Ah the joys of liking to hike and work in the woods...

Though it is conceivable that the same behavior will get me infected again now that I live in SF instead of CT, the much lower deer population has meant that I've not had a single tick bite in 3 years since living here. The one weekend I went back to visit my mom, I got one helping her clean up fallen tree branches in the lawn whilst being observed by a herd of deer.

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#62

Post by mrfusion »

abakker wrote: post #59
mrfusion wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd think you'd have developed an immunity on your own?

If only it worked that way... sadly, we don't do that with Lyme, which is pretty damn hard to kill.

I didn't believe you but here's one article that basically agrees with you http://m.cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/45/8/1032.full

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#63

Post by baddox »

asavadatti wrote: post #52
baddox wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I expect the FDA to be more reliable than the drug companies?

So in your hierarchy of trust the drug companies are the least trustworthy, the FDA is slightly more trustworthy and random unnamed people are the most trustworthy?

I haven't decided on a hierarchy. I asked why I should expect the FDA to be more reliable than the drug companies.

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#64

Post by baddox »

Natsu wrote: post #53
baddox wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I expect the FDA to be more reliable than the drug companies?

You shouldn't trust any of them to begin with, but rather grade them on their accomplishments (e.g. eradication of polio). Similarly, you should also have approximately zero trust in anecdotes about unnamed people when making medical decisions. Or so I heard from some person who I believe to be reliable. Way more reliable than the others.

The trouble with grading people or groups on their accomplishments is that it's only useful if you're evaluating net accomplishments. If, for instance, whoever is responsible for preventing lots of deaths from polio also caused more deaths for other reasons (obviously I'm not suggesting this is the case; it's only an example), I might still be hesitant to trust them.

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#65

Post by Natsu »

baddox wrote: post #64
Natsu wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't trust any of them to begin with, but rather grade them on their accomplishments (e.g. eradication of polio). Similarly, you should also have approximately zero trust in anecdotes about unnamed people when making medical decisions. Or so I heard from some person who I believe to be reliable. Way more reliable than the others.

The trouble with grading people or groups on their accomplishments is that it's only useful if you're evaluating net accomplishments. If, for instance, whoever is responsible for preventing lots of deaths from polio also caused more deaths for other reasons (obviously I'm not suggesting this is the case; it's only an example), I might still be hesitant to trust them.

I wouldn't suggest otherwise, but there's a lot of publicly available research for interested parties to examine - http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/201/11/1607.full

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#66

Post by lnanek2 »

abakker wrote: post #39

FWIW, having been exposed/infected with Lyme disease 3 times, any vaccine would be welcome. Really. I can't stress that enough. Due to a variety of factors, including deer overpopulation(1), the Lyme disease infection rate in Deer Ticks in New England is ridiculously high. While I was undergoing treatment for the 3rd time, my doctor indicated that probably 25% of ticks in that region carry the disease. I'd be all for…

You do realize you can just ask your doctor for an acne antibiotics prescription and be immune to Lyme disease, right? Doctors routinely do this for people who work in dangerous areas for Lyme disease, etc..

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#67

Post by feybay »

bsder wrote: post #58
ars wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The risk from Pertussis is greater than that of DTAP by a lot The risk from Pertussis TODAY is greater than that of DTaP. But when aP was first introduced the risk of pertussis was LOWER than the risk of the Pertussis vaccine, for the simple reason that Pertussis was almost unheard of, but bad reactions to the Pertussis vaccine were quite common. There's a reason they switched to aP you know, it wasn't in order to…

He asked for data and citation. Your claims should be easily documentable since companies did switch and presumably did so for a reason. So, provide the citation or shut up.

Why do you guys get so angry at anything vaguely anti-any vaccine?

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#68

Post by clarky07 »

baddox wrote: post #63
asavadatti wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in your hierarchy of trust the drug companies are the least trustworthy, the FDA is slightly more trustworthy and random unnamed people are the most trustworthy?

I haven't decided on a hierarchy. I asked why I should expect the FDA to be more reliable than the drug companies.

because they aren't for profit? their only reason for existing at all is to keep harmful things from being approved for sale.

I'm by no means saying the FDA is perfect or infallible, far from it. Just that it's super easy to rank them above the drug companies in reliability as to a drugs safety and efficacy.

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#69

Post by bsder »

feybay wrote: post #67
bsder wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He asked for data and citation. Your claims should be easily documentable since companies did switch and presumably did so for a reason. So, provide the citation or shut up.

Why do you guys get so angry at anything vaguely anti-any vaccine?

Why do anti-vaccine people get so upset when told to produce factual evidence?

The problem is that anti-vaccine sentiment is NOT harmless.

Anti-vaccine sentiment means we now have diseases killing children that were effectively eradicated 20 years ago.

Anti-vaccine sentiment means that we don't have a Lyme disease vaccination because the cost of fighting anti-vaxxers exceeds the profit from selling the vaccine.

So, if we look at the balance, anti-vaccination causes real, demonstrable problems while pro-vaccination has yet to have any demonstrated factual downside.

So, yeah, we now have preventable diseases running amok because the logical community was tolerant about anti-vaccination instead of stomping the anti-vaxxers into the ground like they so richly deserved.

Now does the vitriol make sense?

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#70

Post by feybay »

bsder wrote: post #69
feybay wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you guys get so angry at anything vaguely anti-any vaccine?

Why do anti-vaccine people get so upset when told to produce factual evidence? The problem is that anti-vaccine sentiment is NOT harmless. Anti-vaccine sentiment means we now have diseases killing children that were effectively eradicated 20 years ago. Anti-vaccine sentiment means that we don't have a Lyme disease vaccination because the cost of fighting anti-vaxxers exceeds the profit from selling the vaccine. So, i…

The attitude seems a bit out of place but I understand your position more now. Thank you.
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