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Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

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Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#41

Post by ghaff »

fecak wrote: post #35
ghaff wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already exists: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-152.pdf [EDIT: Actually this may not be correct (in this case) because LymeRix was a voluntary vaccination.]

The tl;dr is that in the US, vaccine manufacturers have no liability for the vaccines they produce and sell. Vaccine injury claims are heard without a jury, and paid out by a special fund which exists due to a per-dose tax on vaccines. Vaccinations like the one for Lyme being made unavailable isn't a decision based on liability or risk so much as low demand.

Only some vaccines are covered however: http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/84521booklet.pdf

The focus is on compulsory childhood vaccines although the government can add others at its discretion.

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#42

Post by mason240 »

simoneau wrote: post #5

Lyme disease can usually be treated by antibiotics, especially in the early stages: http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/treatment/ This isn't mentioned by the article anywhere and must be part of the cost-benefit analysis for deploying a vaccine, especially one which is to be only 80% effective and requires booster shots.

I had Lyme disease several years ago and it was quickly cleared up with antibiotics, but not until after a week of intense fever and migraines, joint pain (as in, all my joints), extreme lethargy, and finally the breakout of ring shaped marks all over my body.

I was one of the lucky ones because it was so easily treatable and I have not had any reoccurring systems, something that is pretty common with Lyme disease.

I don' think that everyone needs to be vaccinated, but I really wish I had been given the choice since I live in a area with lots of ticks and spend a lot of time doing outdoor stuff.

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#43

Post by 3am »

ars wrote: post #13
tokenadult wrote: post #4

tl;dr: People who had irrational fears of vaccines claimed harms from the Lyme vaccine that probably were not caused by the vaccine. Sales dropped so much that vaccine manufacturers became reluctant to market the vaccine to humans. Similar irrational fears prompted the development of the "acellular" version of the pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine, which is less effective than the previously used version of the vacc…

> Similar irrational fears prompted the development of the "acellular" version of the pertussis Those fears were not in the slightest irrational. People had really really bad reactions to the regular pertussis to the point that people routinely advised new parents not to get it for their children. The the new version is not as effective, that's true, but people refused the old version, and rightly so - the side effec…

"Those fears were not in the slightest irrational. People had really really bad reactions to the regular pertussis to the point that people routinely advised new parents not to get it for their children."

Simply not true. You can easily find my citations (including CDC). Please provide yours.

"So what's better a vaccine that doesn't work as well, that people are willing to take? Or a vaccine that works well, but far fewer people are willing to take it?"

The risk from Pertussis is greater than that of DTAP by a lot. This is like suggesting we take away seat belts because some people believe they'll trap them in a burning vehicle.

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#44

Post by thomnottom »

__z wrote: post #37
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My son was on an island at a retreat, and his neck and head started hurting like crazy. He was instantly diagnosed by his peers, the counselors and the resident nurse. He was ferried/driven 200 miles to a hospital the same day for antibiotics! So it varies to be sure.

Your son, like most people who get Lyme, probably had a bulls-eye rash and/or recalled being bitten by a tick. A bulls-eye rash is enough to diagnose Lyme disease. Not only that if you start coming down with symptoms of Lyme right after getting bitten by a tick then diagnosis is very trivial. Those who don't have a bulls-eye rash or recollection of tick bites and don't spend a lot of time in the woods have non-specif…

Unfortunately, that's not the case in all areas where Lyme is prevalent. On top of that, the standard Lyme test is not very reliable. Living in New Jersey (filled with deer, mice, and ticks) you would think that doctors would be more aware. But it took several different doctors, emergency visits, hospitalizations, and, yes, a negative Lyme test before my wife was finally diagnosed.

The standard reply in the hospital was that even though they had no clue what was wrong with my wife, they were certain that it wasn't Lyme. And since insurance doesn't cover the Igenix tests, we had to pay the $300+ out of pocket.

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#45

Post by ender89 »

abakker wrote: post #39

FWIW, having been exposed/infected with Lyme disease 3 times, any vaccine would be welcome. Really. I can't stress that enough. Due to a variety of factors, including deer overpopulation(1), the Lyme disease infection rate in Deer Ticks in New England is ridiculously high. While I was undergoing treatment for the 3rd time, my doctor indicated that probably 25% of ticks in that region carry the disease. I'd be all for…

Eh, I feel like its not so bad after the first few times. I did get bell's palsy last time, and I walked around looking like a stroke victim for a bit, but not that bad all in all.

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#46

Post by mrfusion »

abakker wrote: post #39

FWIW, having been exposed/infected with Lyme disease 3 times, any vaccine would be welcome. Really. I can't stress that enough. Due to a variety of factors, including deer overpopulation(1), the Lyme disease infection rate in Deer Ticks in New England is ridiculously high. While I was undergoing treatment for the 3rd time, my doctor indicated that probably 25% of ticks in that region carry the disease. I'd be all for…

I'd think you'd have developed an immunity on your own?

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#47

Post by ChrisArgyle »

voidlogic wrote: post #24
simoneau wrote: post #5

Lyme disease can usually be treated by antibiotics, especially in the early stages: http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/treatment/ This isn't mentioned by the article anywhere and must be part of the cost-benefit analysis for deploying a vaccine, especially one which is to be only 80% effective and requires booster shots.

I know around 10 family members and friends who have had it. Over half of them have lasting damage as often people don't realize they have it until they have had it a while. One of them almost died. If my dog can get it, I should be able to choose to get it, even if its not standard. I pick small ticks off my after every hike, its just a matter of time before I get it.

There's nothing quite like that feeling you get after a hike when you DON'T find any ticks and wonder if it's already latched on somewhere out of sight.

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#48

Post by ender89 »

vanderZwan wrote: post #17
simoneau wrote: post #5

Lyme disease can usually be treated by antibiotics, especially in the early stages: http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/treatment/ This isn't mentioned by the article anywhere and must be part of the cost-benefit analysis for deploying a vaccine, especially one which is to be only 80% effective and requires booster shots.

My younger sister had lyme and was nearly paralyzed before it was discovered. Both of my parents are GPs . My aunt caught Lyme when visiting us in Europe (note that the European and American versions are different), and had to visit 5 different doctors before she got her treatment. The first two thought she was just overworked. By the third time my uncle (neurosurgeon, living in Europe) suggested she had Lyme. The th…

The first time I got lyme in like 1995 or so, no one really knew what it was, and these were doctors close enough to Lyme to actually know it as a town. I remember I got passed around the pediatrics office I attended and finally had to go to a specialist in a major children's hospital before it was correctly diagnosed and treated. Its hard to be treated in areas outside normal lyme areas because its most common symptoms are pretty much generic lethargy and pain (the trademark bullseye rash doesn't always make an appearance).

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#49

Post by ender89 »

vanderZwan wrote: post #17
simoneau wrote: post #5

Lyme disease can usually be treated by antibiotics, especially in the early stages: http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/treatment/ This isn't mentioned by the article anywhere and must be part of the cost-benefit analysis for deploying a vaccine, especially one which is to be only 80% effective and requires booster shots.

My younger sister had lyme and was nearly paralyzed before it was discovered. Both of my parents are GPs . My aunt caught Lyme when visiting us in Europe (note that the European and American versions are different), and had to visit 5 different doctors before she got her treatment. The first two thought she was just overworked. By the third time my uncle (neurosurgeon, living in Europe) suggested she had Lyme. The th…

The first time I got lyme in like 1995 or so, no one really knew what it was, and these were doctors close enough to Lyme to actually know it as a town. I remember I got passed around the pediatrics office I attended and finally had to go to a specialist in a major children's hospital before it was correctly diagnosed and treated. Its hard to be treated in areas outside normal lyme areas because its most common symptoms are pretty much generic lethargy and pain (the trademark bullseye rash doesn't always make an appearance).

Re: Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease and You Can’t (2012)

#50

Post by mrfusion »

cbr wrote: post #9

The patent for LYMErix has expired [1] and the vaccine is still considered to be safe and effective by the FDA [2]. Someone want to start producing it again? [1] http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=... [2] http://www.jefftk.com/fda-lymerix.pdf

How about a kickstarter? I'd donate.
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