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FIFA Officials Arrested on Corruption Charges; Face Extradition to U.S

nytimes.com

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Re: FIFA Officials Arrested on Corruption Charges; Face Extradition to U.S

#181

Post by dragonwriter »

mullingitover wrote: post #117
protomyth wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the same boat. I get prosecuting the US citizens who paid bribes (long history there), but I don't get how the US can go after foreign nationals not on US soil for something that was done outside the US and not an attack on the US. I really don't understand why a country would extradite them in the first place. We can get FIFA, but we cannot get Roman Polanski?

> ...but I don't get how the US can go after foreign nationals not on US soil for something that was done outside the US and not an attack on the US. Some combination of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (where a company can be prosecuted in the US for bribing officials abroad) mixed with RICO. The RICO part might not even be necessary, but it would allow them to go after anyone in the organization if they felt like…

> Some combination of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (where a company can be prosecuted in the US for bribing officials abroad) mixed with RICO.

RICO is cited in the indictment, along with wire fraud and money laundering statutes; FCPA is not.

Re: FIFA Officials Arrested on Corruption Charges; Face Extradition to U.S

#182

Post by mynameisvlad »

dragonwriter wrote: post #155
Ntrails wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely that's a question of implementation not inevitability?

> Surely that's a question of implementation not inevitability? Not really. While there might be some cases where some of the infrastructure is something where the operating/maintenance costs would be justified but which didn't get built because of the up-front capital costs, and where hosting a special event which happened to need the same infrastructure might provide an excuse (or an otherwise-unavailable source of…

Vancouver 2010 is a fantastic example of just that. Yes, there were some developments which could have gone better (Olympic Village, for one), but some much needed infrastructure and stadium upgrades came out of it:

- Sea to Sky Highway went from being a ridiculously dangerous road between Vancouver and Whistler to being a pretty good road (still twisty, but there's only so much that can be done about that), and sorely needed these improvements for many, many years without budget for it.

- Canada Line also received a whole bunch of federal money to get built, probably bringing it ahead of schedule by many years. An airport transit line was badly needed in Vancouver, especially with $40 cab rides to downtown.

- BC Place's renovations got a major budget boost from the Olympics, allowing it to be turned into a great venue. The pressurized roof was a huge annoyance (air locks, yay! /s) and collapsed on several occasions, so the new retractable roof probably wouldn't have happened without the Olympic money.

- Cypress Mountain finally got off their ass and built a proper lodge with proper facilities to support the Olympics.

Vancouver also reused a lot of existing stadiums and infrastructure, opting to upgrade rather than build from scratch. It was honestly an example of a really, really well executed Olympics with a lasting legacy. There have been complainers the entire time, but honestly, it made Vancouver a better city. Closing of Granville for theentirety of the games also allowed the city to experiment with closing off city blocks for events, and that now has become a yearly tradition (along with Robson St). On a more sentimental note, it brought the country together in a unified passion which I had not seen before and have not seen since. It was truly a spectacular experience. I like rewatching the closing comments on CTV (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX_dndXEGHI) as well as Stephen Brunt's video essay (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz8tzP3oeDg) every so often to remember that.

Re: FIFA Officials Arrested on Corruption Charges; Face Extradition to U.S

#183

Post by msellout »

Ntrails wrote: post #110
xasos wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, its really sad. It also applies for events like the Olympics, where infrastructure improvements are mandatory, and costs far outweigh any profit they may receive.

Counterpoint - the infrastructure stays around. The stadiums get used and re-used, transport improvements benefit locals in perpetuity, tourism/trade brings in money to the economy, not to mention there are general "morale" reasons to host. These are not profit making events to host, or at least they ought not to be. The benefits are varied and certainly not trivially reducible to profit/loss on the event itself.

Stadiums and kind of businesses that appear nearby take up valuable space that could be used for higher-value economic activities. There was a rush of US mayors sponsoring stadiums in the 1990s. Almost all of those turned out to be net negative, compared with the opportunity cost.

Re: FIFA Officials Arrested on Corruption Charges; Face Extradition to U.S

#184

Post by austenallred »

notsony wrote: post #125
austenallred wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turns out crimes aren't mutually exclusive. Not sure that prosecuting a crime is a "false flag" either.

Your first point is of course true. Your second point about "false flag" makes no sense whatsoever. EDIT: This is why HackerNews is going to the dogs. This perfectly reasonable comment has been downvoted numerous times.

It's being downvoted because talking about the Clinton administration's financial backing in this thread is off-topic and a little absurd, and this comment is seen as an extension of the first.

Re: FIFA Officials Arrested on Corruption Charges; Face Extradition to U.S

#185

Post by austenallred »

supergirl wrote: post #142
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/30/sport/football/football-pl... It claims that Putin was initially skeptical about Russia's bid but had later thrown his full weight behind the process. "He (Putin) took a personal interest in the running of the bid in mid-2010," the committee report reveals. Under the heading, "Intelligence relating to Russia 2018" a series of allegations are revealed about Putin's role in brokering a…

Anyone can claim anything to make the other look bad. Russia claims the allegations are unfounded speculation.

Conversely, anyone can claim that any fact is "unfounded speculation."

There are arrests being made and cases put forward based on this. So while it's not yet a finished matter, saying, "Nothing has been proven" at every piece of evidence is a bit of a cop-out. Pointing out what evidence there is does not qualify, as you claim, as "Putin slander."

Re: FIFA Officials Arrested on Corruption Charges; Face Extradition to U.S

#186

Post by _nedR »

austenallred wrote: post #126
[deleted] wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

> As for the granting of the World Cup, what has so upset the Anglophonic world is that someone else outspent England and US efforts to purchase the World Cup. Also, you know, the thousands of people killed in slave labor to build the stadiums, the fact that Qatar is 120+ degrees Fahrenheit during the summer (50 Celsius), making playing a soccer tournament completely unreasonable, and the fact that this "outspending"…

Oh, stop your bleeding hearts. Speaking as an Indian who has lived in the Gulf (and has family who has worked in these construction sites you speak of), I find it immensely ironic that a bunch of former colonial white-majority countries (the biggest benificiaries of slavery) are lecturing Qataris on slavery and human rights.

Yes, the labour laws there suck and are in much need of reform, but the levels of criticism this has reached crosses into downright racism.

Since we are on the topic of slavery. What about the millions of undocumented workers in the US, who work below minimum wage, have no rights, and no protections afforded by the law- They are effectively slaves working under the threat of deportation. The idea that US government cannot do anything to stem the flow of illegal immigration is ridiculous. We are talking about a country with military/police capabilities larger than the remaining top 5 countries combined. The fact of the matter is the US economy benefits from having a low-cost, migrant population with no rights, just like Qatar, and the government isn't in a hurry to fix it.

I would rather a World Cup be hosted somewhere in middle-east,Asia or Africa instead of yet another country in Europe or the Americas . India would make a great host if it could afford it. But we can't, and neither can many Asian/African countries. If the Qataris can and are willing to do it, give them a chance.

Edit: It's also amusing to find everyone on this thread and the internet up in arms against Qatar/Russia for all the bribery and corruption, when the indictments so far actually relate to corruption going back 24 years for matches in the US, South America (according to BBC) and the previous World cup in South Africa. I don't remember anyone complaining about corruption back then.

Re: FIFA Officials Arrested on Corruption Charges; Face Extradition to U.S

#187

Post by rossng »

nissehulth wrote: post #123
Ntrails wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint - the infrastructure stays around. The stadiums get used and re-used, transport improvements benefit locals in perpetuity, tourism/trade brings in money to the economy, not to mention there are general "morale" reasons to host. These are not profit making events to host, or at least they ought not to be. The benefits are varied and certainly not trivially reducible to profit/loss on the event itself.

Lots of stuff built is just a giant money pit and nobody benefit from it after the games. http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/ghosts-of-olympics-past?... http://www.businessinsider.com/sochi-olympics-ghost-city-201... http://distractify.com/culture/sports/haunting-images-of-aba...

This is sadly common, but not always the case. The London 2012 organising committee appear to have done a pretty good job of avoiding the infrastructure 'money pit'.

In fact, the 'legacy' of the Games was one of its main themes[1]. A ton of money was spent redeveloping Stratford, the area surrounding the Olympic Park, and the site itself has been converted into a park. Lots of the venues were temporary, and the major ones - e.g. aquatics, velodrome - are still being used. Many of the venues were also designed with conversion in mind - the aquatics centre was downsized, the stadium is being taken over by a football club. I think a lot of past problems stem from massively oversized venues that nobody can use afterwards, so hopefully that will be avoided.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_the_2012_Summer_Olymp...

Re: FIFA Officials Arrested on Corruption Charges; Face Extradition to U.S

#188

Post by wldcordeiro »

mikeryan wrote: post #162
slg wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is highly dependent on the host nation. The biggest factor is that they have already invested a large amount in infrastructure and/or will continue to make use of the facilities after the event. The 94 Cup in the US and the 2006 Cup in Germany are the two most recent examples. It is very hard for developing nations like South Africa, Brazil, or Qatar to have any chance of turning a net profit.

Brazil at least also has the Olympics coming up so one would hope some of the infrastructure put in place for the World Cup will transfer over. Who knows though.

Who knows, I saw something recently about some of the stadiums built for the world cup being used as parking lots.

Re: FIFA Officials Arrested on Corruption Charges; Face Extradition to U.S

#189

Post by hyperion2010 »

lordnacho wrote: post #167

One thing I don't get is why this form of corruption is illegal. FIFA is a sort of international club, right? If I make an international group for the placement of Tiddlywinks world cups, and I make some internal rules for it, why does the state care how the politics turns out? Is it illegal to bribe someone making some private decision?

They are a business and are thus regulated by relevant laws. In this case FIFA is also a monopoly. Imagine if comcast started forcing Tier3 or someone else to pay bribes to get to their customers (heh). This is basically equivalent to that. Tier3 could sue if it was done off the books (re: bribes) and the IRS would go after the corp for tax evasion if they didn't report the bribe income. Not sure how this case will proceed, but my bet is that some of the charges will relate to tax evasion. Taking bribes is also likely only part of the story.

Re: FIFA Officials Arrested on Corruption Charges; Face Extradition to U.S

#190

Post by austenallred »

_nedR wrote: post #186
austenallred wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for the granting of the World Cup, what has so upset the Anglophonic world is that someone else outspent England and US efforts to purchase the World Cup. Also, you know, the thousands of people killed in slave labor to build the stadiums, the fact that Qatar is 120+ degrees Fahrenheit during the summer (50 Celsius), making playing a soccer tournament completely unreasonable, and the fact that this "outspending"…

Oh, stop your bleeding hearts. Speaking as an Indian who has lived in the Gulf (and has family who has worked in these construction sites you speak of), I find it immensely ironic that a bunch of former colonial white-majority countries (the biggest benificiaries of slavery) are lecturing Qataris on slavery and human rights. Yes, the labour laws there suck and are in much need of reform, but the levels of criticism t…

> The levels of criticism this has reached crosses into downright racism.

What the fuck? Thousands of people have died building soccer stadiums and people are saying that is wrong.

That has nothing to do with race whatsoever.

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