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An interactive map showing every German bomb dropped on London during WW2 Blitz

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Re: An interactive map showing every German bomb dropped on London during WW2 Blitz

#51

Post by JoeAltmaier »

tomjen3 wrote: post #49
afarrell wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a separate discussion about the argument that the allies should have bombed the lines to the death camps: I've been bewildered for a decade how anyone proposes that they could have done any damage to a 1.4 meter wide target made of two steel beams lying on the earth. At least, any damage that could not have been repaired in half a week.

You don't blow up just any track: you blow up bridges because they take so much more time to build or repair. As for the targeting: you have to go really low. British bombers attacked the gestapo hq in Copenhagen by going so low that their bombs were dropped into the sides of the building (consequently, although that wasn't the plan, a number of prisoners who had been housed in cells in the top floor managed to escap…

But cruise missiles fly low for the express purpose of being harder to shoot down! I know, radar and anti-aircraft measures are different now. But flying low means antiaircraft measures have only hundreds milliseconds to spot you, aim and fire, before you pass over.

Re: An interactive map showing every German bomb dropped on London during WW2 Blitz

#55

Post by gadders »

jstalin wrote: post #42
fit2rule wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lest we forget the true nature of war, it should be noted that British and American bombs are discovered all over the place in Germany too, every year. And still cause casualties, alas.

I've also heard that WWI munitions are routinely found in France still, with farmers still getting killed occasionally.

And some people try to take them through the Channel Tunnel on Eurostar: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32690320

Re: An interactive map showing every German bomb dropped on London during WW2 Blitz

#56

Post by Crito »

afarrell wrote: post #18
afarrell wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luck Aerial bombardment was very inaccurate in those days. In Berlin, the RAF failed to hit what was then the largest office building in the world: the ministry of aviation. However, they did destroy one of the oldest synagogues in Europe. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detlev-Rohwedder-Haus

For a separate discussion about the argument that the allies should have bombed the lines to the death camps: I've been bewildered for a decade how anyone proposes that they could have done any damage to a 1.4 meter wide target made of two steel beams lying on the earth. At least, any damage that could not have been repaired in half a week.

You have your bombing run at an angle to the rails, not parallel or perpendicular. Like the RAF did with Operation Black Buck in the Falklands.

Anyway, what I've usually heard is that they should have bombed the camps themselves, not the rail lines leading to them. That's not what I personally think, but that's what I've heard others talk about.

Re: An interactive map showing every German bomb dropped on London during WW2 Blitz

#57

Post by Crito »

tomjen3 wrote: post #49
afarrell wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a separate discussion about the argument that the allies should have bombed the lines to the death camps: I've been bewildered for a decade how anyone proposes that they could have done any damage to a 1.4 meter wide target made of two steel beams lying on the earth. At least, any damage that could not have been repaired in half a week.

You don't blow up just any track: you blow up bridges because they take so much more time to build or repair. As for the targeting: you have to go really low. British bombers attacked the gestapo hq in Copenhagen by going so low that their bombs were dropped into the sides of the building (consequently, although that wasn't the plan, a number of prisoners who had been housed in cells in the top floor managed to escap…

Bridges have been known to take quite a beating: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanh_H%C3%B3a_Bridge#Operation...

That's a bit of an exceptional case, but still, it isn't trivial.

Re: An interactive map showing every German bomb dropped on London during WW2 Blitz

#58

Post by gadders »

kristopolous wrote: post #2

I'm curious about how the civilian population went about this. I'd like to say that if I saw even a remote possibility of something like this happening, I'd hastily vamoose to the hinterlands without a second thought and remain there indefinitely. What percentage of people left the cities in anticipation of such events? The narratives I've seen on the Japanese bombings was that people strategically moved to the small…

I've always found this advice given to GIs being posted to the UK an interesting document [1]

"At Home in America you were in a country at war. Now, however, you are in a war zone."

[1]http://www.hardscrabblefarm.com/ww2/britain.htm

Re: An interactive map showing every German bomb dropped on London during WW2 Blitz

#59

Post by Crito »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #51
tomjen3 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't blow up just any track: you blow up bridges because they take so much more time to build or repair. As for the targeting: you have to go really low. British bombers attacked the gestapo hq in Copenhagen by going so low that their bombs were dropped into the sides of the building (consequently, although that wasn't the plan, a number of prisoners who had been housed in cells in the top floor managed to escap…

But cruise missiles fly low for the express purpose of being harder to shoot down! I know, radar and anti-aircraft measures are different now. But flying low means antiaircraft measures have only hundreds milliseconds to spot you, aim and fire, before you pass over.

Flying low and fast means that the heavy AA can't hit you, but it leaves you vulnerable to light AA. If you're low and fast enough, then they won't have much warning and your angular velocity will be pretty high, making you harder to hit. At the same time, light AA rounds get to the target faster. That means they are shooting at you, rather than where they think you are going to be. That light AA also has a better rate of fire.

Low and fast was safer in many scenarios, but it wasn't without drawbacks.

Re: An interactive map showing every German bomb dropped on London during WW2 Blitz

#60

Post by olavk »

Crito wrote: post #56
afarrell wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a separate discussion about the argument that the allies should have bombed the lines to the death camps: I've been bewildered for a decade how anyone proposes that they could have done any damage to a 1.4 meter wide target made of two steel beams lying on the earth. At least, any damage that could not have been repaired in half a week.

You have your bombing run at an angle to the rails, not parallel or perpendicular. Like the RAF did with Operation Black Buck in the Falklands. Anyway, what I've usually heard is that they should have bombed the camps themselves, not the rail lines leading to them. That's not what I personally think, but that's what I've heard others talk about.

Bombing the camps would have killed the prisoners. Extermination camps like Auschwitz-Birkenau was built in connection with the concentration camp Auschwitz, so it would have been impossible to bomb without killing camp prisoners.

Now something like Treblinka was purely a "killing factory" with no prisoners held for more than a few hours before they were killed. In that case bombing everything would probably have saved lives in retrospect, since any prisoners at the site would have been killed anyway, and destroying the facilities would have slowed down the extermination project. But while the allied knew mass killings was taking place, they didn't know enough about the locations and logistics to make that call.

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