Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace • Hacker News Board

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#71

Post by paganel » Wed, May 27, 2015, 12:59 PM UTC

stevesearer wrote: post #57

One facet that never comes up in these anti-open office articles is that it is 100% impossible to design the perfect office for you as an individual, for every other individual, all while designing an office that is perfect for the organization. Many people here advocate private offices, which are great, but as soon as you start putting up walls, you've totally restricted access to natural light in the interior of th…

> Many people here advocate private offices, which are great, but as soon as you start putting up walls, you've totally restricted access to natural light in the interior of the building.

Which means you need different, i.e. better, buildings, those for which it is possible to construct window offices of 4-to-6 people.

> Hint: It won't be private offices.

Yeah, I don't think private offices will "come back", so to speak, but almost anything is better than the current "let's all share a long table"-thing. From my experience offices hosting 4-to-6 people are the best in terms of privacy, communication and ROI for the organization.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#72

Post by ArkyBeagle » Wed, May 27, 2015, 1:01 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #52

calinet6 wrote: post #37

We get it, HN is majority introvert, and really likes logical optimization using data. But some things aren't easily measurable. Is it a coincidence that companies who pioneered the open office plan are also some of the most successful in the world? Show me how you'd even begin to disprove that and I'll show you a dozen confounding variables making it silly to even try. What is the true impact of an open office on a…

DeMarco and Lister ( Peopleware ) saw the problems with open offices decades ago. The notion that open offices were a bad idea is not a new discovery. Companies like them because they are initially a lot cheaper than giving people their own offices.

Initially? Not so much. My understanding from when a company I worked for built a building is that bespoke offices would have been cheaper - it's just a few (steel) studs, some sheetrock , wiring and labor.

Cubicles can be quite expensive. The appeal appears to be flexibility.

Actual open offices - no cubicles, just tables - approximate a continuous meeting.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#73

Post by matthewmacleod » Wed, May 27, 2015, 1:02 PM UTC

laichzeit0 wrote: post #38

ronnier wrote: post #4

I truly dislike open offices. The constant sound of mechanical keyboards clacking really gets to me, and I'm not sure why. I wear headphones listening to loud music to cancel out the sounds of these damn keyboards.

Then there is the open plan office, combined with the clean desk policy. That way you have to endure the inane yacking going on around you and god forbid you try and figure something out on a piece of paper while you're working and go grab a coffee without locking said piece of paper in a drawer or it's a written warning. I hate the modern corporate office environment. HR should just be upfront about what open plan o…

To be completely fair, that's just an awful working environment rather than a necessary condition of modern office space.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#74

Post by pjc50 » Wed, May 27, 2015, 1:02 PM UTC

stevesearer wrote: post #57

One facet that never comes up in these anti-open office articles is that it is 100% impossible to design the perfect office for you as an individual, for every other individual, all while designing an office that is perfect for the organization. Many people here advocate private offices, which are great, but as soon as you start putting up walls, you've totally restricted access to natural light in the interior of th…

Small group offices of three to five people are the best working environments I've had. You could probably make it work up to eight, but having a single team larger than that is an organisational issue in itself.

The hierarchy is real and shouldn't be pretended away. Having the CEO hotdesk does not actually make the company more egalitarian.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#75

Post by rwallace » Wed, May 27, 2015, 1:04 PM UTC

laichzeit0 wrote: post #38

ronnier wrote: post #4

I truly dislike open offices. The constant sound of mechanical keyboards clacking really gets to me, and I'm not sure why. I wear headphones listening to loud music to cancel out the sounds of these damn keyboards.

Then there is the open plan office, combined with the clean desk policy. That way you have to endure the inane yacking going on around you and god forbid you try and figure something out on a piece of paper while you're working and go grab a coffee without locking said piece of paper in a drawer or it's a written warning. I hate the modern corporate office environment. HR should just be upfront about what open plan o…

This idea that open plan offices are about saving money needs to go in the bit bucket. If it was really about money, they'd have people working from home, which offers far greater cost savings. It's not about money, it's about power, the visible display of subservience.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#76

Post by bunkydoo » Wed, May 27, 2015, 1:04 PM UTC

If you don't like this, why not go start your own company or find a new job? There is nothing forcing you to stay in this job. I for one have to agree that the communal aspect of working in an open office has its benefits and downfalls. But if one day I came in and didn't like it to the level you described - I'd quit and go find a job where I can get right with myself.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#77

Post by ArkyBeagle » Wed, May 27, 2015, 1:04 PM UTC

bachmeier wrote: post #62

stevesearer wrote: post #57

One facet that never comes up in these anti-open office articles is that it is 100% impossible to design the perfect office for you as an individual, for every other individual, all while designing an office that is perfect for the organization. Many people here advocate private offices, which are great, but as soon as you start putting up walls, you've totally restricted access to natural light in the interior of th…

The trend will be the elimination of offices. There's nothing lower cost than forcing employees to provide their own offices and work equipment.

It's not hard to check out equipment to work with for use offsite. Offsite work is a challenge, but at least for me, I'm probably doubly productive that way. Was the overall team doubly productive? I have no real way to know.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#78

Post by kendallpark » Wed, May 27, 2015, 1:14 PM UTC

Every few months there's an opinion piece on HN about open offices. Then everyone gets into the same debate over whether they like the open offices or not.

What I'd like to see are new STUDIES about open offices, not the rehashing of personal experiences and anecdotes.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#79

Post by frostmatthew » Wed, May 27, 2015, 1:15 PM UTC

bunkydoo wrote: post #76

If you don't like this, why not go start your own company or find a new job? There is nothing forcing you to stay in this job. I for one have to agree that the communal aspect of working in an open office has its benefits and downfalls. But if one day I came in and didn't like it to the level you described - I'd quit and go find a job where I can get right with myself.

> why not go start your own company

That's not a realistic solution for the vast majority of people. Many people (such as myself) have absolutely no desire to start a company - and many who would want to aren't in a financial position to go an undetermined amount of time without a paycheck.

> find a new job

With most companies choosing to ignore the countless studies done on this subject and instead just do what the cool kids are doing there aren't many jobs to pursue that are not in an open-office.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#80

Post by arbitrage » Wed, May 27, 2015, 1:17 PM UTC

stevesearer wrote: post #57

One facet that never comes up in these anti-open office articles is that it is 100% impossible to design the perfect office for you as an individual, for every other individual, all while designing an office that is perfect for the organization. Many people here advocate private offices, which are great, but as soon as you start putting up walls, you've totally restricted access to natural light in the interior of th…

Don't kid yourself. Take down walls, and people will still find ways to signal rank and hierarchy. People are the cause of this, not private working spaces.