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Why do people waste so much time at work?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#51

Post by prawn »

douche wrote: post #35
dylanjermiah wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's an example of a proposed technological break through which can do the work of the adult population?

Self-driving cars, travel websites, self-checkout lines, Amazon's automated shipping centers, the first fast-food restaurant that lets you order with a touchscreen instead of having your order taken incorrectly by a minimum-wage drone, possibly Watson as a replacement for low-level customer service/tech support

I believe some fast food places have introduced apps through which you can send your drive through order in advance.

The drive through window with its crappy speaker and on-the-clock ordering experience is currently pretty poor.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#52

Post by benihana »

Foomandoonian wrote: post #12

"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because…

So basically 9,999 people are completely dependent on the work of one person for them to survive and prosper. Sounds really rosy, for everyone involved.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#53

Post by learnstats2 »

sillygoose wrote: post #34
Foomandoonian wrote: post #12

"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because…

> We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living Right, because valuable things don't actually cost anything to produce! That's why they can just be (automatically) handed out by some big Magic Nanny-Fairy Machinery. We should all just get whatever we want, because we deserve it!

Translation:

Sillygoose should get whatever they want for playing the game of capitalism the luckiest and the best (but mostly the luckiest), and everybody else who is unluckier or less good should suffer, to provide for all of sillygoose's wants as cheaply as possible, rather than having their own basic needs met.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#54

Post by sillygoose »

rorykoehler wrote: post #48
sillygoose wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living Right, because valuable things don't actually cost anything to produce! That's why they can just be (automatically) handed out by some big Magic Nanny-Fairy Machinery. We should all just get whatever we want, because we deserve it!

Every time there is any thread about anything remotely socially progressive you are there espousing your highly conservative viewpoint. This made me curious and I am really trying to understand what life experiences could have led you to have such views. I have a few questions that might help paint a clearer picture if you would be so kind? If you decide to answer please answer honestly. Where did you grow up? What w…

> Every time there is any thread about anything remotely socially progressive you are there espousing your highly conservative viewpoint.

Oh? Well, from my point of view I'm espousing independent thinking. Questioning things is a sign of doing that.

> Where did you grow up? What were your parents jobs? How much did your parents earn in yearly income?

I grew up in Finland, in an upper-middle class family.

> Have you ever not eaten for multiple days on end because you couldn't afford to buy food? What do you work as?

Nope. A developer.

> How much do you currently earn?

Around three thousand euros per month, before taxes.

> How do you personally calculate the cost and value of a good or service?

I don't. Something either has value to me or it doesn't. If you've actually read my messages, you may have noticed me talking about how value is subjective. In a nutshell, Value is utility as a means towards an end.

For example, how do you "calculate" the value of something you don't want at all?

> Do you understand the difference in the meaning of the words 'want' and 'need'?

Sure.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#55

Post by floppydisk »

Foomandoonian wrote: post #12

"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because…

We tried this idea, in America, at the Jamestown Colony. They initially established it in a "socialist" vein wherein everyone received an equal share of the proceeds (food, etc) regardless of their contributions to the colony. The colony barely survived because people lacked the incentive to work and produce because there was no advantage to them working more than their peers. Why should I work to produce an excess when Billy Bob sits on the dock all day and receives the same share I do. When they lifted the socialist mandate on redistribution, production at the colony skyrocketed because people were rewarded for their effort.

Everyone has to put a roof over their head and food in their belly. If we create a culture that tells people they don't have to work to receive those benefits, it will disicentivize people to actually work (why should they if their excess production goes to subsidizing non-producers who stare at the sky all day?) and engage in production activities. Supporting a society necessitates producers create more than what they need, but if you create a system that takes what it deems the excess from the producers without compensation or reward and doles it out, the producers will stop producing and we'll back at Jamestown all over again.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#56

Post by carl-j »

justincormack wrote: post #25
bgilroy26 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Communication about what needs doing i.e. Lack of leadership

Partly. But there is usually no method of discovery either. In a software company there is an issue tracker and you can just go and fix bugs if nothing else, that doesnt exist in a traditional company.

I've reflected upon this recently.

Wouldn't a traditional company also benefit from using the same or similar tools for managing work as software companies? (mostly a rethorical question)

A lot of white collar workplaces have their homebrew Excel workbooks to keep track of tasks and a lot of meetings that fill up everyone's time in order to organize activities, leaving little time for the actual work to be done.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#57

Post by toolz »

erikb wrote: post #47
_pmf_ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then what about distribution of these resources? The point is that this is an entirely separate question. On a global scale, it's hard to find a worse distribution scheme than the currently used scheme, so any arbitrary distribution is better than the current one (in which the powerful take increasingly more).

The quote mentions that people either work to make a living or to make a reason for living. My argument is that there is another reason which is quite common: to get a bigger piece of the pie. If you put in more hours on friday night because you want a raise then the reason is not that you want to pay your bills (you already do that), and it's not because you couldn't do anything else on friday night that would be re…

No one seems to be suggesting taking work away from people that want it, rather, it's to alleviate people from working who don't want it.

If you want to work 80 hour weeks to drive a car that can go faster than you'll ever legally be able to push it and live in a house so large you only use a quarter of the living space regularly. Go for it.

As for me, I'd rather have my basics met, so I could spend more time doing things to help build my community or just go camping and enjoy nature on a whim. The worst part is that I've found the more money I make, the better people treat me. So I don't have the option of working part-time just to make ends meet. That would quickly land me in a position with people who look at me like I'm worthless and treat me as expendable, which would make working even more unbearable.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#58

Post by benihana »

rorykoehler wrote: post #48
sillygoose wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living Right, because valuable things don't actually cost anything to produce! That's why they can just be (automatically) handed out by some big Magic Nanny-Fairy Machinery. We should all just get whatever we want, because we deserve it!

Every time there is any thread about anything remotely socially progressive you are there espousing your highly conservative viewpoint. This made me curious and I am really trying to understand what life experiences could have led you to have such views. I have a few questions that might help paint a clearer picture if you would be so kind? If you decide to answer please answer honestly. Where did you grow up? What w…

>espousing your highly conservative viewpoint.

I don't ever recall reading either of you or GP's comments before so maybe I'm missing something. But since when is saying "producing things has a cost" a 'highly conservative' viewpoint?

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#59

Post by jsudhams »

rorykoehler wrote: post #43
mistaken wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that having jobs is the problem. A lot of people can benefit from having jobs. Ideally a workplace should provide a way to develop people, a stable income and clear goals. It is also less risky for the employer (doesn't have to search for someone when a task needs to be done) and the employees (stable income). I personally like to work in an environment where I can decide what has to be done, how to do…

The issue is that from birth most of us are conditioned, through education and culture to not take this responsibility. Most of those who beat the trap have their passion squeezed from them through poverty or dreary corporate jobs that consume them. You wouldn't believe how many people ask me what people would do if they didn't have to work due to guaranteed basic income or some such. Why do I even have to answer tha…

Great point. I think with robotics and other automations we will get minimum wages and work / art or other efforts will give bonus. Kaliyug in vedas mentioned a 10000 years period where everything will great with everyone happily living with others with out wars and fights. I strongly believe if all countries work together we can make it happen. I think corporates in current methodology done their job and move on two new model which will be that profits be used for bonus and for basic wages for all method.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#60

Post by Anderkent »

benihana wrote: post #52
Foomandoonian wrote: post #12

"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because…

So basically 9,999 people are completely dependent on the work of one person for them to survive and prosper. Sounds really rosy, for everyone involved.

Those 9999 people would be completely fine if they were born earlier. We enable some people to be incredibly productive, at the cost of other peoples ability to support themselves.

"But society came and paved over the place where all the roots and berry plants grew and killed the buffalo and dynamited the caves and declared the tribal bonding rituals Problematic. This increased productivity by about a zillion times, so most people ended up better off. The only ones who didn’t were the ones who for some reason couldn’t participate in it.

(if you’re one of those people who sees red every time someone mentions evolution or cavemen, imagine him as a dockworker a hundred years ago, or a peasant farmer a thousand)

Society got where it is by systematically destroying everything that could have supported him and replacing it with things that required skills he didn’t have. Of course it owes him when he suddenly can’t support himself. Think of it as the ultimate use of eminent domain; a power beyond your control has seized everything in the world, it had some good economic reasons for doing so, but it at least owes you compensation!" http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/16/burdens/

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