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Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#11

Post by tormeh »

jmnicolas wrote: post #6

My opinion based on my experience in France is that the workplace is more about appearing to be working than to actually do something useful. So if nobody can see you working because you're not in the building you're not contributing to this illusion of work being done. Where I 'work' I have a manager that has to invent some crazy projects just to keep me occupied. If he didn't do that I could work half a day every w…

Well, sounds like you either have to switch jobs or you have to work 14 times slower.

Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#13

Post by danieltillett »

rwallace wrote: post #5

The theory that remote working is advantageous has the unstated premise that the thing being optimized for is wealth. In that theory, it makes sense to use methods that let people get their jobs done with minimum cost and distraction. In reality, money is a weaker motive than power. When workers are on site, particularly in an open plan office, the boss's brain receives reminders every hour of every day that he is wi…

If you are a boss looking to play power games then I can think of better subjects than developers - there is a reason that managing developers is equated with herding cats.

More seriously I think a lot of the reluctance to hire remote workers revolves around communication. Managing developers requires great communication which is very hard to do remotely. Of course on the positive side if you are willing to make the effort there are some really, really good European developers out there who want to work remotely.

Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#14

Post by duckmysick »

stared wrote: post #4

I know quite a few friend in Poland doing remote work... for US. Especially given higher IT salaries in the US than in Western Europe, it't not that bad. I do as well, but mostly freelancing contracts. The only thing that sucks is the timezone difference.

May I ask what is the relationship between remote workers and the employer's company? Are the remote workers hired directly by the US company, are they hired by a Polish subsidiary of the US company, or are they self-employed working as a contractors?

Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#15

Post by bresc »

First of all not everyone is suited for remote work. Remote work often means working from home (co-working space maybe) which makes it rather difficult to engage in social activities. While co-working spaces might make it easier it's still more difficult. Also not everyone has the self-discipline and while you might argue that people also go to the office and browse HN all day others feel more motivated working in an office. Additionally the communication is way different. Emotions get lost in Chats and Skype calls. Last also due to bad audio quality.

Yes remote work can be good and advantageous for some, but it can also be bad.

Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#16

Post by atmosx »

True. Although I have a mediocre GitHub profile, I receive about ~ 1 job offer (well some are interview offers) from recruiters every 1.5 - 2 months. Every single one of them was about relocation (UK or DE).

I'm not interested in relocation. If I could find a team that work with technologies that I like, I would accept a 'lower salary' just to work part-time (~15 - 20 hrs/week) remotely, then I would seriously consider joining, but that's not the case in Europe, apparently.

Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#18

Post by jbob2000 »

There are some pretty silly responses here. I don't think you can accurately say that there's no remote work because of power tripping and laziness, though I understand where that sentiment comes from. I think the real reason you don't see more remote work is that it's just a sub-par way to work. While there are no physical miles to travel, you have to go an extra mile in organization in communication.

Our VP of engineering lives on the other side of the country and I think it does more harm then good. He only knows what's going on based on the Trello board, bug tracker, and what people tell him. He misses the "unofficial" communication; the back-and-forth banter between devs, the morning coffee chats, the idle brainstorming, etc. that comes with physically working with other people. He's put himself in a glassbox and just sits there issuing development edicts without any grasp of what the real issues are.

Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#19

Post by magiconair »

I am one of these managers in Amsterdam with an international team of 10 people from 8 different countries who still writes code. My desire is to have a team that gets the job done. The most effective way for them to do this IMO is to have them sit together so that they can discuss issues they have immediately.

We are seeing effects of less effective communication of teams sitting just a few desks apart.

Remote work has great benefits for the remote worker - and having been one I know them as well. The downside is that when you're building something complex the communication overhead is too big.

Another thing is that remote workers in vastly different timezones provide a time window for architectural discussions which can be too short. So they are never there when you need them and can only work alone.

I prefer to give my team members flexibility to run their personal errands and family issues but to have them on-site to have the shortest group communication paths possible.

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