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John Nash's letters to the NSA (1955) [pdf]

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Re: John Nash's letters to the NSA (1955) [pdf]

#21
This was in 1955!

There are comments here trying to contrast Nash's work to modern cryptography, as though that's somehow fair. Nash never had access to anything remotely like a personal computer and this is just after the age - and in fact still one - where physical and mechanical devices were being used to perform encryption.

The better thing to do would be to compare (rather than contrast) his work. Look at this letter. Nash essentially predicts trapdoor functions and the P/NP gap... in a mere letter.

We were lucky to have Nash and his contributions. It's unfortunate that most of his academic work is largely unknown and that pop science focuses disproportionately on his work on equilibrium in symmetric games.

May he rest in peace.

Re: John Nash's letters to the NSA (1955) [pdf]

#22
post #4

The diagram on page 14 (page 3 of the machine description) vaguely resembles a Markov model, which I could imagine would be useful for cryptanalysis, but I don't see how such a system would be reasonable for encryption or decryption if you have the keys. Am I misunderstanding the machine?

The NSA's response said about the same thing, once you get to the end --- not interesting, not reasonable for encryption and decryption. Interesting, I think, the statement that Nash's machine requires "comparatively" too much hardware. This implies the NSA did have auto-keying systems at the time that had higher security, and lower hardware burden. Remember, in '55 we didn't have single-chip CPUs, we barely had prac…

Who is this "the enemy" of which you speak? "Filthy Commies"? "Ragheads"? The Hun?

Come on, if you're going to go all nationalist on us do it wholeheartedly.

Re: John Nash's letters to the NSA (1955) [pdf]

#23
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe that Princeton PhD's go by "mister" instead of "doctor." Would you have a reference for this? This is really interesting.

From http://www.princeton.edu/communications/services/editorial/r... : > “Use the title Dr. only when referring to a medical doctor.”

That's a style guide for writers who happen to be attending Princeton, and a fairly common one, at that: generally one says John Doe, Ph.D. for a non-physician and then later says Doe, not Dr. Doe or Mr. Doe (the blanket rule against courtesy titles is also common and independent of Dr.). As for not using Dr. as a title for certain types of degrees, that is not universally accepted and has been the minority in my experience (with the exception of Juris Doctors). Pretty much every Ed.D. I have met styles themselves Dr., for example, though half of the etiquette people discourage it.

To the root point, your citation has absolutely nothing to do with a proper title for a Princeton alumnus.

Re: John Nash's letters to the NSA (1955) [pdf]

#24
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today's generation is strongly detached from the military, I think that is why. If everyone had a close family member or friend serving they would care more about the security of military operations. Like it or not we have enemies still and need to maintain this secrecy to protect our country.

My brother is in the US Army (and so was my cousin). I don't believe that Snowden-like reveals put him in any more specific danger - AFAIK, he's at much higher risk from "insurgent" activity, which the US's actions have created without any help from leaks. Nor is using the word "serving" instead of "working" beneficial to how people think about it. It's a job, he enjoys it, he's fairly well compensated (good credit,…

> I don't believe that Snowden-like reveals put him in any more specific danger

That's true only in the same way that sending half-rations to your soldiers on the front line instead of full rations doesn't put them in "more specific" danger.

Or in a civilian context, refusing to wear seat belts doesn't put people in any "more specific" danger, nor does smoking cigarettes. Yet we understand that statistically speaking across the entire population in question, that it is possible to reduce the risk of harm by taking specific actions that have general impact.

In the case of the military, it's always a double-ended question. There is the risk added or reduced for your force in particular, but also the risk added or reduced for the adversary forces.

E.g. you put "insurgent" in scare-quotes when mentioning that they actually pose a danger to your family in the military, but without seeming to realize that many of the NSA programs Snowden leaked are directly aimed at those very same insurgents putting your family at risk. Even if we take it as true that the U.S. managed to unilaterally create insurgencies (which is by no means the case), that is not the fault of U.S. servicemembers like your family any more so than any other non-U.S. politician.

To loop back to my point about managing general risk, the things that Snowden leaks had disastrous real effects, including second- and third- order effects. Beyond improving the security posture of U.S. insurgent adversaries and terror networks (terror networks that strike against U.S. allies in addition to the U.S. itself, I might add), Snowden's leaks also had the effect of weakening the national intelligence agencies of important U.S. allies, and reducing Western nations to infighting even as they needed to be able to present a united front due to geopolitical changes. It's hard to make statements about past "what-ifs" (though that has never stopped Snowden's supporters from chicken-littling about future what-ifs...), but certainly the joint U.S./E.U. reaction to Russia's invasion of Crimea would be more meaningful without Snowden's actions a year earlier.

But just because these risks (for the U.S. and for the possible adversaries or the U.S.) can't be quantified or laid out in short and simple flowcharts doesn't mean that those risks don't exist.

Re: John Nash's letters to the NSA (1955) [pdf]

#25
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA's response said about the same thing, once you get to the end --- not interesting, not reasonable for encryption and decryption. Interesting, I think, the statement that Nash's machine requires "comparatively" too much hardware. This implies the NSA did have auto-keying systems at the time that had higher security, and lower hardware burden. Remember, in '55 we didn't have single-chip CPUs, we barely had prac…

now that you mention it, the red threat of the 1950s and the civil rights movement are quite similar to the dangers posed by the American populace since 911.

i can only conclude that the downvoters must feel that: the red threat was real and the civil rights movement was a real and present danger.

Re: John Nash's letters to the NSA (1955) [pdf]

#26
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could be wrong, but I believe that Princeton PhD's go by "mister" instead of "doctor." Princeton considers itself a unique institution in this way. They do not accept transfer students, they do not have any professional degree programs, etc.

I can't find anything online supporting this.

I learned that "don't use Doctor except for medical doctors" was a thing in high school (South Carolina), and this custom was practiced at both my undergraduate school (Brandeis) and my grad school (UVa, Astronomy.)

Re: John Nash's letters to the NSA (1955) [pdf]

#27
Back when these were declassified, I prepared a transcript and annotated parts of it: http://gwern.net/docs/1955-nash Good for those who don't want to go through the scanned PDF version but a HTML version. (My version also has links to various discussions such as class exercises in breaking his proposed system.)

Re: John Nash's letters to the NSA (1955) [pdf]

#28
post #3

Why do the generals refer to him as Mr. Nash? (and not Dr. Nash, or Prof. Nash)? It's not like the military is not used to being precise about titles (i.e. ranks)

I could be wrong, but I believe that Princeton PhD's go by "mister" instead of "doctor." Princeton considers itself a unique institution in this way. They do not accept transfer students, they do not have any professional degree programs, etc.

University of Virginia does this as well:

"Out of respect for the founder of the University who did not have a Ph.D., University faculty are referred to as Mr. or Mrs. instead of Doctor, even if they have a Ph.D. Students and faculty historically addressed each other in this manner. Medical doctors are the exception to the rule and they should be referred to as Doctor."

http://www.virginia.edu/deanofstudents/studenttraditions.htm...

Re: John Nash's letters to the NSA (1955) [pdf]

#29
post #4

The diagram on page 14 (page 3 of the machine description) vaguely resembles a Markov model, which I could imagine would be useful for cryptanalysis, but I don't see how such a system would be reasonable for encryption or decryption if you have the keys. Am I misunderstanding the machine?

The NSA's response said about the same thing, once you get to the end --- not interesting, not reasonable for encryption and decryption. Interesting, I think, the statement that Nash's machine requires "comparatively" too much hardware. This implies the NSA did have auto-keying systems at the time that had higher security, and lower hardware burden. Remember, in '55 we didn't have single-chip CPUs, we barely had prac…

Wait, you run a company (Aerospike) making a DB engine. It had better be backdoored and automatically relaying data to intelligence services, or at least banned for export without spyware - if that isn't the case, you're not living by your own mantra, and I'd be curious as to why not?

Re: John Nash's letters to the NSA (1955) [pdf]

#30
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA's response said about the same thing, once you get to the end --- not interesting, not reasonable for encryption and decryption. Interesting, I think, the statement that Nash's machine requires "comparatively" too much hardware. This implies the NSA did have auto-keying systems at the time that had higher security, and lower hardware burden. Remember, in '55 we didn't have single-chip CPUs, we barely had prac…

Wait, you run a company (Aerospike) making a DB engine. It had better be backdoored and automatically relaying data to intelligence services, or at least banned for export without spyware - if that isn't the case, you're not living by your own mantra, and I'd be curious as to why not?

Where is this mantra you speak of? In the post at least, he was speaking of what John Nash believed.
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