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PayPal penalised for 'deceptive' practices

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Re: PayPal penalised for 'deceptive' practices

#181
post #159
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I have with just about every payment processor out there is something that Bitcoin does well with from a protocol perspective. Right now you can copy a credit card with a mag reader in seconds, compromising some website that accepts credit cards means no limits to how much you can spend with other merchants, even having your credit card number stored in an RFID tag that can be read from a few feet away in…

ApplePay potentially meets that description. Also, chip-and-pin cards.

Estimates are that ApplePay is experiencing fraud rates as high as 6% at some banks.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/18/technology/apple-pay-fraud/

Re: PayPal penalised for 'deceptive' practices

#182

Paypal has so many things wrong with their company. The majority of employees, even in the business support department, have absolutely no clue what is going on. They will give you an answer to a question, you will call back later, get a new agent, and then you'll get a completely different answer to the same question. Half the time the customer support is clearly just improvising, because the system is such a mess t…

O.K. I'm not a huge fan of PayPal. My biggest gripe is they just got big and stupid. (Holding funds for weeks until a customer gives positive feedback on ebay? I have had mixed results on customer service.) That said, what product are you selling that you require a picture of the customer? I see this trend popping up and don't like it. While I have had problems with PayPal practices-- PayPal employees who don't care,…

Let me start by saying that I agree with most of your points 100%. I am an advocate for privacy, and I think it's crazy that businesses need to ask people for photo ID to make fairly simple purchases.

I sell digital goods for online games. This means I do not have shipping receipts that will make me eligible for seller protection. The reality is that more and more businesses are providing services and products which are intangible. I'd imagine more than 50% of PayPal transactions these days do not involve shipping labels, yet their entire claim system revolves around them.

What I've noticed in the past 5-8 years is that Paypal has really cut down on real fraud. When I started doing business in 2007, there were kids who couldn't have been older than 15 years old buying stolen PayPal accounts on sketchy forums, and using them to buy digital products like MMO currency. We'd get hit quite regularly with real fraud.

Today, it seems that there are much less of these stolen accounts in circulation. Paypal has clearly cleaned up their act and put a bunch of security measures in place to prevent unauthorized access to people's funds. Nonetheless, unauthorized claims and chargebacks still happen. These days it's just people who spend a bunch of money, and decide later to try and get it all back, everyone else be damned.

There's not much you can do to screen for them placing those disputes. All we can do is collect as much information as possible, from all our buyers, to make sure that no real fraud gets through our systems. I do feel that if we did not have security measures in place, the stolen Paypal accounts might show up again.

But yes, long story short, I really wish there was a better way than collecting people's ID's. Unfortunately, we are in an awkward transition where it is very difficult to prove someone is who they claim to be, without requiring invasive evidence.

Re: PayPal penalised for 'deceptive' practices

#183

Paypal has so many things wrong with their company. The majority of employees, even in the business support department, have absolutely no clue what is going on. They will give you an answer to a question, you will call back later, get a new agent, and then you'll get a completely different answer to the same question. Half the time the customer support is clearly just improvising, because the system is such a mess t…

picture is obviously not enough. How about a short video where customer clearly pronounces the authorization and makes his/her unique "signature" dance?

Re: PayPal penalised for 'deceptive' practices

#184
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real core business competence of a payment processor isn't handling or distributing money, it's dispute arbitration.

Yes, absolutely; and this is one of the things that Bitcoin advocacy ignores. It goes in the other direction: all transfers are final, legitimate or otherwise.

There are solutions that can be built on top of Bitcoin. See https://www.bitrated.com/ (full disclosure: I'm the founder).

Re: PayPal penalised for 'deceptive' practices

#185
PayPal said I can't change the country on the account but instead have to close it and open a new one. I closed the account and let them know I'm not opening a new and it's not (only) because of that inconvenience, but for all the crap that I keep reading they do to other users. It my mind it's a crappy company and the only impactful way you can express that is by not using it.

Re: PayPal penalised for 'deceptive' practices

#186

Paypal has so many things wrong with their company. The majority of employees, even in the business support department, have absolutely no clue what is going on. They will give you an answer to a question, you will call back later, get a new agent, and then you'll get a completely different answer to the same question. Half the time the customer support is clearly just improvising, because the system is such a mess t…

What is collecting pictures of photo ID supposed to do for you? Honest question.

Far as I can tell, it only means the scammer was able to copy the photo that was sitting on my computer (likely via the same malware they used to steal my other credentials to begin with). Why was it sitting on my computer to begin with? Because companies like yours demand a copy of my photo ID. Sure I could delete it but we both know most people won't. IMO its a poorly thought out policy to collect photo ID without verifying the person in the photo is in fact the person you're talking to, ala face to face conversation via Skype or similar.

I don't buy things from sites that demand photo ID without verification, I'm not saying you should change your ways, but you're losing customers like me by enforcing that policy.

Re: PayPal penalised for 'deceptive' practices

#187
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, absolutely; and this is one of the things that Bitcoin advocacy ignores. It goes in the other direction: all transfers are final, legitimate or otherwise.

There are solutions that can be built on top of Bitcoin. See https://www.bitrated.com/ (full disclosure: I'm the founder).

Reputation systems and multi-sig escrows are not substitutions for chargebacks.

There are plenty of instances where you need to refund something the day after you received it, by which point the escrow money is long gone. Then the solution becomes "Hold transactions in escrow for 30 days" which isn't a solution.

And reputation systems don't work on the internet, especially when purchasing is involved. How do you competitively solve this problem?

Re: PayPal penalised for 'deceptive' practices

#188

I closed my PP account 2 years ago and would never consider using the service again. Once upon a time it was a necessary evil, now it is no longer necessary (just evil).

Doesn't this significantly impact your ability to use eBay?

eBay's gotten pretty awful, too. Fees, awful CS... I've not used the site seriously since the asinine decision to not allow feedback for buyers. They've become downright hostile to people who don't intend to make a living on the site.

Re: PayPal penalised for 'deceptive' practices

#189

"Our focus is on ease of use, clarity..." That's rich. PayPal's business has primarily been based on obfuscating the difference between card payments and bank drafts, and steering consumers to a choice that is not in their best interests. Bank drafts (ACH) are almost all profit for PayPal but much worse for customers, as the consumer protections are weaker, reward programs are nonexistent and there is a risk of overd…

At one point PayPal's website was so broken in the web browsers I used that it refused to let me log in. This had the brilliant side effect that I was able to use my credit card through them; I never could figure out how not to use ACH when I was logged in.

Re: PayPal penalised for 'deceptive' practices

#190
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ApplePay potentially meets that description. Also, chip-and-pin cards.

Estimates are that ApplePay is experiencing fraud rates as high as 6% at some banks. http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/18/technology/apple-pay-fraud/

That is describing using Apple Pay as a way to tender already stolen credit cards and has nothing to do with the security of Apple Pay itself.
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