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Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

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Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#131
post #124

Serious question: What's the point of safely downloading any binary to run on your closed-source operating system? None of that code can be verified. Do people actually believe Windows is secure?

Unless you have personally read, fully understood the security implications of, and compiled from source every application currently running on a Linux machine, including the kernel, then you really have little guarantee of safety in open source, and probably not even then.

Most Linux users are not experts in any of the multiple languages that their applications might have been written in, and so are neither capable, nor likely willing, to pore over millions of lines of polyglot code just to verify that the latest version of Iceweasel doesn't have an NSA backdoor (or what have you.) Therefore, the blind trust most Linux users place in whomever wrote their distro and their applications is no different than the blind trust Windows and OSX users place in the companies that make their operating systems and any binaries they download from third parties.

Granted, in the open source case, anyone can look at the code, and the axiom that "with enough eyes, all bugs are shallow" does sometimes work. But it doesn't necessarily follow that no one at Microsoft or Apple is paying as much attention to their code as the masses are to open source code. It's just an assumption on the part of the open source community, that open source necessarily leads to greater code coverage because the code is available to everyone, versus a subset of employees at a company, and that it's harder to hide things in plain sight when the source code is available. This assumption of course turns out sometimes to be spectacularly untrue, as it was in the case of Heartbleed.

Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#132
post #111

If you are really concerned about security, why would you trust an prebuilt binary of an open source project. The source is available, just grab the source and build it your self. That way you at least know what you have.

You mean you can't tell what the program is doing by just glancing over the binary in a hex editor? /s You have to be a pretty good programmer to identify obfuscated code in something like Putty I'd imagine - particularly as all the parts needed for snooping are intended to be there: certainly I (a non-programmer) couldn't guarantee to spot a reverse SSH connection being used for key-logging. Configure-make-install I…

You also can not assume that the original author of PuTTY isn't secretly working for NSA, or who ever. The fact is, the ONLY safe way to get PuTTY is to indeed grab the code, go through it line by line, and than build it, and hope that your compiler sin't infected as well. I am just point out that it's more difficult to hide things inside the code than it is in the built binary, not impossible, but more difficult.

Web-of-trust, what ever that might mean, isn't helpful because you ultimately have to trust someone. How do you know the person you are trusting isn't an NSA agent?

Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#133
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not just a rant. As of two days ago, there is a hostile version of PuTTY in the wild.[1][2] It's on some mirror sites distributing open source software. It steals login credentials. Right now, it's essential to be able to tell the good one from the bad ones, and it's not easy. [1] http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/check-your-sources-tro... [2] http://blogs.cisco.com/security/trojanized-putty-software

Interesting, this should be in the original article as well! I used Putty a lot until I switched my desktop to Linux full time.

The original article is from over a year ago. It wasn't in response to anything in particular, but it doesn't have to be.

If you see something potentially vulnerable, you don't have to wait until it's been exploited to report it.

Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the fact that it's awful? Can you seriously compare PuTTY with even the most lacklustre terminal available on OS X or Linux? It's an atrocity of UX design straight out of the Windows 95 era. Their home page is also the epitome of not caring about user experience even to the slightest degree. Nearly zero effort: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ I've seen people construct more impressive pag…

The home page is clearly organized and readable, only having some text and links. What more do you want from a website that only exists to distribute one program? There's a link to the download page right on top. It's more than good enough. Do you need flashy CSS animations and a Konami Code to find a website cool enough for you? There's not a single thing wrong with PuTTY's UX either. The terminal area is just a ter…

Clearly Stockholm Syndrome has set in here.

That page is awful. Period. What do I want from a website that exists to distribute one program? Some effort. Some class. Something more than the software equivalent of being wrapped in greasy newspaper.

When you say "its UX because it's already optimal" you're basically saying "I do not value fit and finish, I am purely interested in functionality, I also make my own underwear out of used socks."

Why am I so upset? It's because of this attitude. Taking the time to make a nice page and present your software with pride shows you care. Using the same old HTML from 1997 says you don't care.

Would it kill programmers to talk to designers and do some knowledge sharing?

Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#135
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The home page is clearly organized and readable, only having some text and links. What more do you want from a website that only exists to distribute one program? There's a link to the download page right on top. It's more than good enough. Do you need flashy CSS animations and a Konami Code to find a website cool enough for you? There's not a single thing wrong with PuTTY's UX either. The terminal area is just a ter…

It's a well designed win32 application, designed to the portable as far as windows applications go. I just don't get the hate on PuTTY.

It's a functional application. It's not well designed. It's not "portable". The hate is because it is so mediocre it's insulting to anyone who uses Windows and has to suffer through it.

If you prefer it, that's fine, but some people expect a bit more from their tools than merely being "functional" no matter how ugly.

Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#137
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The home page is clearly organized and readable, only having some text and links. What more do you want from a website that only exists to distribute one program? There's a link to the download page right on top. It's more than good enough. Do you need flashy CSS animations and a Konami Code to find a website cool enough for you? There's not a single thing wrong with PuTTY's UX either. The terminal area is just a ter…

It's a well designed win32 application, designed to the portable as far as windows applications go. I just don't get the hate on PuTTY.

I support the love. PuTTY serves well as an SSH client, many complaints here are about other issues like security, https, trusting binaries, GUIs, and really it's not fair to Simon and team who kindly released the program for us all to use. Nowadays I only use it when I'm unfortunate enough to need to do work on a Windows machine. Thanks guys for releasing this free software.

Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#138
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean you can't tell what the program is doing by just glancing over the binary in a hex editor? /s You have to be a pretty good programmer to identify obfuscated code in something like Putty I'd imagine - particularly as all the parts needed for snooping are intended to be there: certainly I (a non-programmer) couldn't guarantee to spot a reverse SSH connection being used for key-logging. Configure-make-install I…

You also can not assume that the original author of PuTTY isn't secretly working for NSA, or who ever. The fact is, the ONLY safe way to get PuTTY is to indeed grab the code, go through it line by line, and than build it, and hope that your compiler sin't infected as well. I am just point out that it's more difficult to hide things inside the code than it is in the built binary, not impossible, but more difficult. We…

>How do you know the person you are trusting isn't an NSA agent? //

You don't but the top node in your web has to be trusted by lots of other people, some ideally are able to confirm the code is kosher - you need a massive conspiracy to happen or to have put your trust in people who couldn't care less about putting their name to malicious software.

It's like if dang tells you something is an official HN policy you might trust it, but if that statement by dang is signed by other HN officials then you're going to be pretty certain that's true.

Kinda like a technical "social proof". If I know that Stallman, Torvalds, Wozniak are using a piece of software then I'm going to be pretty confident that it's been checked out as much as any piece of software. Yes they could _all_ be endorsing it because the NSA told them too.

Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#139
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows user for 20+ years. I've never heard of Ninite.

I haven't touched windows in close to 5 years but it's pretty awesome for when you are rebuilding a machine and want to install a bunch of core utils/programs all in one go.

Couldn't agree more. As someone how sets up computers for family members, simplifying the process to Install Windows>Update>Run Ninite>DONE is a massive timesaver.

Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#140
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What causes you to say that putty is pretty awful?

How about the fact that it's awful? Can you seriously compare PuTTY with even the most lacklustre terminal available on OS X or Linux? It's an atrocity of UX design straight out of the Windows 95 era. Their home page is also the epitome of not caring about user experience even to the slightest degree. Nearly zero effort: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ I've seen people construct more impressive pag…

If somebody wants the website to look better, I recommend hacking on Halibut (http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/halibut/) which is a document preparation system built by the same author and used to create the site.
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