Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Snowden Sees Some Victories, from a Distance

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 178 posts

Re: Snowden Sees Some Victories, from a Distance

#11

Post by asddubs »

blumkvist wrote: post #9
jgrahamc wrote: post #6

I sometimes think that HN is pro-Snowden. Are there folks here who see him as less a hero more a villain?

I can't say I see him as a villain, but definitely not a hero. I hold back my judgement, because we are just too far away to know what's going on. He did expose some pretty bad practices to the general public, but asylum in Russia afterwards? Are you kidding me? That just looks super fishy to anyone with at least an ounce of critical thought in his brain. Especially in the context of the Crimea debacle.

Could you expand on that? Why is it fishy?

Re: Snowden Sees Some Victories, from a Distance

#12

Post by deciplex »

blumkvist wrote: post #9
jgrahamc wrote: post #6

I sometimes think that HN is pro-Snowden. Are there folks here who see him as less a hero more a villain?

I can't say I see him as a villain, but definitely not a hero. I hold back my judgement, because we are just too far away to know what's going on. He did expose some pretty bad practices to the general public, but asylum in Russia afterwards? Are you kidding me? That just looks super fishy to anyone with at least an ounce of critical thought in his brain. Especially in the context of the Crimea debacle.

If currently-serving national-level politicians are calling for your extrajudicial assassination, Russia is one of the safer places on Earth for you to be.

Re: Snowden Sees Some Victories, from a Distance

#13

Post by blumkvist »

blumkvist wrote: post #9
jgrahamc wrote: post #6

I sometimes think that HN is pro-Snowden. Are there folks here who see him as less a hero more a villain?

I can't say I see him as a villain, but definitely not a hero. I hold back my judgement, because we are just too far away to know what's going on. He did expose some pretty bad practices to the general public, but asylum in Russia afterwards? Are you kidding me? That just looks super fishy to anyone with at least an ounce of critical thought in his brain. Especially in the context of the Crimea debacle.

I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU, SO I WILL DOWNVOTE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Snowden Sees Some Victories, from a Distance

#14

Post by pimentel »

deciplex wrote: post #12
blumkvist wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say I see him as a villain, but definitely not a hero. I hold back my judgement, because we are just too far away to know what's going on. He did expose some pretty bad practices to the general public, but asylum in Russia afterwards? Are you kidding me? That just looks super fishy to anyone with at least an ounce of critical thought in his brain. Especially in the context of the Crimea debacle.

If currently-serving national-level politicians are calling for your extrajudicial assassination, Russia is one of the safer places on Earth for you to be.

Exactly. The best place to hide from the US is staying in a country who won't quickly deliver you to the US with just a fingersnap, like a good dog. Like any EU country would. Even if that means a not so free country.

Re: Snowden Sees Some Victories, from a Distance

#15

Post by realusername »

blumkvist wrote: post #9
jgrahamc wrote: post #6

I sometimes think that HN is pro-Snowden. Are there folks here who see him as less a hero more a villain?

I can't say I see him as a villain, but definitely not a hero. I hold back my judgement, because we are just too far away to know what's going on. He did expose some pretty bad practices to the general public, but asylum in Russia afterwards? Are you kidding me? That just looks super fishy to anyone with at least an ounce of critical thought in his brain. Especially in the context of the Crimea debacle.

What other choice does he have ? He asked almost every European countries for asylum and they all refused him.

Re: Snowden Sees Some Victories, from a Distance

#16

Post by pluma »

blumkvist wrote: post #9
jgrahamc wrote: post #6

I sometimes think that HN is pro-Snowden. Are there folks here who see him as less a hero more a villain?

I can't say I see him as a villain, but definitely not a hero. I hold back my judgement, because we are just too far away to know what's going on. He did expose some pretty bad practices to the general public, but asylum in Russia afterwards? Are you kidding me? That just looks super fishy to anyone with at least an ounce of critical thought in his brain. Especially in the context of the Crimea debacle.

He only had to take asylum in Russia because the US revoked his passport and prevented him from going anywhere else. Russia was never intended to be more than a stop-gap.

Considering how disgustingly subservient all of Europe has been to bend over backwards to the US (e.g. forcing the landing of a presidential plane because someone suspected it was carrying Snowden) you can't really blame him. Russia is the only country in the region that doesn't care whether the US wants him or not (and would even refuse to co-operate simply to flip them off).

Heck, I'd love to see him be granted asylum somewhere else but all of Europe would drop him like a hot potato the second the US told them to hand him over.

Re: Snowden Sees Some Victories, from a Distance

#17

Post by deciplex »

blumkvist wrote: post #13
blumkvist wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say I see him as a villain, but definitely not a hero. I hold back my judgement, because we are just too far away to know what's going on. He did expose some pretty bad practices to the general public, but asylum in Russia afterwards? Are you kidding me? That just looks super fishy to anyone with at least an ounce of critical thought in his brain. Especially in the context of the Crimea debacle.

I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU, SO I WILL DOWNVOTE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think we agree or disagree with you so much as you haven't made any strong statements to agree or disagree with. What do you think his fate would be now, had he released the documents then turned himself over to US authorities?

Re: Snowden Sees Some Victories, from a Distance

#18

Post by wongarsu »

blumkvist wrote: post #9
jgrahamc wrote: post #6

I sometimes think that HN is pro-Snowden. Are there folks here who see him as less a hero more a villain?

I can't say I see him as a villain, but definitely not a hero. I hold back my judgement, because we are just too far away to know what's going on. He did expose some pretty bad practices to the general public, but asylum in Russia afterwards? Are you kidding me? That just looks super fishy to anyone with at least an ounce of critical thought in his brain. Especially in the context of the Crimea debacle.

I don't see how asylum in Russia was fishy.

Snowden probably doesn't like the Russian government, but he was stuck in a Russian airport with a revoked passport. Even if he had free choice, Russia is one of the few countries willing and able to withstand US pressure to extradite him. Being on trial in the US isn't an option for him because what he did may have been just, but was striclty illegal.

Russian-US relations were at a low and Russia generally likes sending little fuck-yous. Granting Snowden asylum is also good PR for Russia because they appear strong against perceived US injustice.

For both sides the choices appear completely rational without implying any foul play or hidden relations.

Re: Snowden Sees Some Victories, from a Distance

#19

Post by blumkvist »

jules wrote: post #10
blumkvist wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say I see him as a villain, but definitely not a hero. I hold back my judgement, because we are just too far away to know what's going on. He did expose some pretty bad practices to the general public, but asylum in Russia afterwards? Are you kidding me? That just looks super fishy to anyone with at least an ounce of critical thought in his brain. Especially in the context of the Crimea debacle.

What should he have done instead?

I can't say what he should have done. I can say what I would do if I made the choice to whistleblow. I would stay and face the trial. Make a very big fuss about it. After all, I've decided to stand up for something. Something big. If I'm going to make that sacrifice, I will go all the way. I wouldn't risk casting shadows on my selfless act by going to an overly ambitious political rival of the US. Who also happens to have significantly worse practices in the very same domain. It's like exposing corruption in the police department and then only hanging out at the mafia's restaurant. How am I supposed at look at that guy now?

That's not to say the initial act has no value. It most certainly has. But everything he says afterward I just don't value at all.

I don't think you should desert to the enemy if you're trying to fix your battalion.

Re: Snowden Sees Some Victories, from a Distance

#20

Post by blumkvist »

deciplex wrote: post #17
blumkvist wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU, SO I WILL DOWNVOTE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think we agree or disagree with you so much as you haven't made any strong statements to agree or disagree with. What do you think his fate would be now, had he released the documents then turned himself over to US authorities?

I replied to a commenter who asked if there were people who don't think Snowden is a hero. I don't think Snowden is a hero. That's my opinion and that was my reply. The overgrown kindergarteners of HN of course disagree and they have to show it by downvoting.
Post reply on HN