Software contractor for Airbus and Rolls-royce here. All safety critical software (every piece of code ran on-board is safety critical the least) in aerospace needs to pass the DO-178 standard [1]. That is far more serious than standard unit tests you are used to in node.js applications. Generally speaking, to develop a piece of code under that standard it takes 20% of time to write the code, and 80% to testing, and…
A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues
41–50 of 129 posts
Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues
#42Software contractor for Airbus and Rolls-royce here. All safety critical software (every piece of code ran on-board is safety critical the least) in aerospace needs to pass the DO-178 standard [1]. That is far more serious than standard unit tests you are used to in node.js applications. Generally speaking, to develop a piece of code under that standard it takes 20% of time to write the code, and 80% to testing, and…
Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues
#43So basically the software bug happened, because there are quality problems in the manufacturing street? wtf!?!?
Unfortunately manufacturing let a batch of 0.0201 size slip thru inspection, they just barely fit on the assembly line despite being out of spec too large, and the PID controller makes the system go into oscillation and explode because its outside its theoretical limits of whats possible.
The most insidious spec violations are "manufactured too well" if for example you rely on frictional damping to eliminate oscillations, then making and shipping better ball bearings than you'd ever shipped before, could ruin an overall system because one component is too good. Possibly the "error" is something is too smooth, too straight, too flat, or too low friction. No one ever expects those to cause a disaster, but it can happen.
That would be an example of a disaster involving software, that can be fixed in software, although it wasn't caused by the software, it was caused by bad control system engineering design work. Also this abstract example probably has nothing to do with the real problem, although the "widget" and "size" could very well be something line fuel line tubing inside diameter.
Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues
#44Software contractor for Airbus and Rolls-royce here. All safety critical software (every piece of code ran on-board is safety critical the least) in aerospace needs to pass the DO-178 standard [1]. That is far more serious than standard unit tests you are used to in node.js applications. Generally speaking, to develop a piece of code under that standard it takes 20% of time to write the code, and 80% to testing, and…
How does liability work, and do Airbus have access to the source code? I assume that if a "bug" was found in the architectural blueprint for a plane it would be the manufacturer who in the end is responsible for not finding it, but they would naturally have full access to the blueprint when making the plane. Is the same true when developing the custom software for the plane?
However it's a complete different matter for civil airplanes : it's the lead dev/project manager which is liable for life for what he has shipped. For example, a retired engineer from Airbus was heard in trial for the Concorde accident in France in 2000.
Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues
#45"Problems in developing the engines, and particularly in certifying the engine control software, contributed to three years of delays and a new cash injection by governments in 2010."
Seems like they had some issues. Surprising it's that difficult.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/19/airbus-a400m-idUSL...
Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or it seems like the problem may have been a known (or suspected) issue with an old firmware, and the check is to make sure the firmware is above a certain version (which would also explain why the check would be necessary on any replacement ECUs).
The A400M that crashed was on its first test flight, so unless they've done something very odd with versioning, it's unlikely that all its ECUs had older firmware than planes that already shipped. Besides, with aircraft, all changes are logged with a ton of paperwork, so they shouldn't need to check the aircraft to know what firmware they're running.
Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues
#47Software contractor for Airbus and Rolls-royce here. All safety critical software (every piece of code ran on-board is safety critical the least) in aerospace needs to pass the DO-178 standard [1]. That is far more serious than standard unit tests you are used to in node.js applications. Generally speaking, to develop a piece of code under that standard it takes 20% of time to write the code, and 80% to testing, and…
Which programming language is commonly used there? Ada, C, C++, JOVIAL, Asm?
Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can confirm similar situations for other EU IT projects. Currently, I am a contractor working on the IT side for the Galileo Satellite System. Although the IT consulting company that I work for pays significantly better then the 18K mentioned (25K-30K range) the quality of the work that is delivered is terrible. The mentioned salary is for graduate engineers. The attrition rate is terrible and its impossible to kee…
Uh, there's a massive difference between contracting on satellite systems and contracting on civil aviation systems.
Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues
#49I wonder if this is the time to argue that it may be worth open sourcing the controlling software for hackers to start criticising and contributing pull requests to. I'm willing to bet that the competence of the collective community far outweighs that of those specially trained to write the software at present. What is there to lose by opening up the software to criticism other than better aviation safety? We know th…
The other problem is that the maintainers have to be set up to handle a potential avalanche of comments, criticisms, questions, and pull requests, mostly from people who don't know anything about software development processes and standards within the aviation community. If they're already too overloaded to find all of the bugs themselves, they certainly won't be able to effectively manage open-sourcing their code.
Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues
#50I wonder if this is the time to argue that it may be worth open sourcing the controlling software for hackers to start criticising and contributing pull requests to. I'm willing to bet that the competence of the collective community far outweighs that of those specially trained to write the software at present. What is there to lose by opening up the software to criticism other than better aviation safety? We know th…