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A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues

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Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues

#21

Post by belorn »

alandarev wrote: post #18

Software contractor for Airbus and Rolls-royce here. All safety critical software (every piece of code ran on-board is safety critical the least) in aerospace needs to pass the DO-178 standard [1]. That is far more serious than standard unit tests you are used to in node.js applications. Generally speaking, to develop a piece of code under that standard it takes 20% of time to write the code, and 80% to testing, and…

How does liability work, and do Airbus have access to the source code? I assume that if a "bug" was found in the architectural blueprint for a plane it would be the manufacturer who in the end is responsible for not finding it, but they would naturally have full access to the blueprint when making the plane. Is the same true when developing the custom software for the plane?

Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues

#22

Post by [deleted] »

JshWright wrote: post #13
mhandley wrote: post #11

Here's Airbus's statement on the Alert they sent to operators: Airbus Defence and Space has today (Tuesday 19 May) sent an Alert Operator Transmission (AOT) to all operators of the A400M informing them about specific checks to be performed on the fleet. To avoid potential risks in any future flights, Airbus Defence and Space has informed the operators about necessary actions to take. In addition, these results have i…

Or it seems like the problem may have been a known (or suspected) issue with an old firmware, and the check is to make sure the firmware is above a certain version (which would also explain why the check would be necessary on any replacement ECUs).

[deleted]

Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues

#23

Post by rkangel »

madez wrote: post #9
rurounijones wrote: post #5

Watching too many air-crash investigation episodes had lead me to believe 0% of media reported "facts" surrounding plane crashes. I will wait for the official accident investigation report.

This is a very sound decision. The media is infamous for not getting facts straight. They much rather write an opinion based on suspicion. Well, no, thank you. Give me facts, get them straight, then I will make up my opinion.

Then stick with a news agency rather than journalists. The information from somewhere like Reuters is carefully presented as pure content, no opinion, and probably has a greater chance of being true.

Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues

#24

Post by nier »

hydrogen18 wrote: post #12
tirant wrote: post #7

I am not surprised at all. There are a lot of contractors involved in the development of the software for the A400M, and they are basically competing for price and employing undergraduates making below €18K/year, which they replace every few months due to burnouts and bad working conditions. Projects get continuously delayed, and key people barely stay more than a couple of years.

I thought that 'lowest bidder wins' was an American phenomenon? Certainly, Boeing and others have figured out how to game the system here in the states and abroad.

My german architect clients say: “Ze lowest bidder wins to start ze project with ze highest bidder’s plans.” Which is funny when you squint enough to ignore the tragedy.

Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues

#25

Post by Nitramp »

mhandley wrote: post #11

Here's Airbus's statement on the Alert they sent to operators: Airbus Defence and Space has today (Tuesday 19 May) sent an Alert Operator Transmission (AOT) to all operators of the A400M informing them about specific checks to be performed on the fleet. To avoid potential risks in any future flights, Airbus Defence and Space has informed the operators about necessary actions to take. In addition, these results have i…

> So, obviously they've found something they're concerned about, but it seems to me to be a bit early to say as Spiegel Online do that software caused the crash.

I would assume the Spiegel report is based on more sources than just Airbus' public statement. At least most of the time, Der Spiegel is a real newspaper, not just some blog spouting stuff based on conjecture from a single source. They mention internal sources in multiple places in the article.

Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues

#26

Post by mdaverveldt »

bottled_poe wrote: post #19
tirant wrote: post #7

I am not surprised at all. There are a lot of contractors involved in the development of the software for the A400M, and they are basically competing for price and employing undergraduates making below €18K/year, which they replace every few months due to burnouts and bad working conditions. Projects get continuously delayed, and key people barely stay more than a couple of years.

Have you been involved with the engineering of aircraft control systems, or are you just speculating?

I can confirm similar situations for other EU IT projects. Currently, I am a contractor working on the IT side for the Galileo Satellite System. Although the IT consulting company that I work for pays significantly better then the 18K mentioned (25K-30K range) the quality of the work that is delivered is terrible. The mentioned salary is for graduate engineers.

The attrition rate is terrible and its impossible to keep people who have knowledge of the program on board.

I would guess that 30-50% of our team are inexperienced java software engineers with less then 5 years of working experience. Around 100 people work on our project but there are probably 3-5 people who still have a clear picture of how everything is working / supposed to work.

Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues

#27

Post by SixSigma »

rurounijones wrote: post #5

Watching too many air-crash investigation episodes had lead me to believe 0% of media reported "facts" surrounding plane crashes. I will wait for the official accident investigation report.

it isn't just plane crashes where that applies, tbh pretty much every subject

Re: A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues

#30

Post by scrollaway »

mdaverveldt wrote: post #26
bottled_poe wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you been involved with the engineering of aircraft control systems, or are you just speculating?

I can confirm similar situations for other EU IT projects. Currently, I am a contractor working on the IT side for the Galileo Satellite System. Although the IT consulting company that I work for pays significantly better then the 18K mentioned (25K-30K range) the quality of the work that is delivered is terrible. The mentioned salary is for graduate engineers. The attrition rate is terrible and its impossible to kee…

Uh, there's a massive difference between contracting on satellite systems and contracting on civil aviation systems.
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