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Spotify artists earn $167 per 1 million plays.

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Re: Spotify artists earn $167 per 1 million plays.

#11
post #10
post #2

Is this surprising to anyone? You cannot simultaneously have the price of a good be zero at the margin and yet pay producers non-zero renumeration at the margin. There is no Internet Economic Fairy that makes it possible to increase consumption of music by a factor of dozens while simultaneously decreasing monthly expenditures on music (relative to CD sales) AND leaving all participants in the system better off.

The only money I've ever made off of music is doing live gigs. Give your music away for almost nothing (or dirt cheap) and then play your own shows. Record sales as a way to profit probably should never have existed. I would not be surprised if music historians in the future look back on the 20th century record industry as an aberration that existed only in the time when live performances stopped being the singular w…

The only money I've ever made off of music is doing live gigs. Give your music away for almost nothing (or dirt cheap) and then play your own shows.

This is The Problem for the record industry - there's an almost infinite supply of very talented musicians that are thrilled to do exactly what you suggest. That makes it extremely difficult to buy the argument that we won't have music anymore if people aren't willing to pay for records. It just not true, all we'd lose is heavily produced pop music, and everyone else would continue to play because they really love it. I don't see live gigs drying up as an income source for quite a while, and they are (just barely) enough to let plenty of people play for a living.

I'd add "teach lessons" to that list, too, that's how most of the musicians that I know actually make rent each month; gigs are just beer money if you've got a full roster of students. Learn a few extra instruments, you don't have to be very good to teach most students - I know drummers that teach piano, pianists that teach guitar, etc. To optimize for income, find yourself a nice rich suburb with some cheaper (but still pleasant) areas to live in around it, and teach lessons to the kids in the suburb (you can charge probably 2-3x what you'd get anywhere else, even if you're not one of the best) while living cheap a couple towns over and playing gigs in the city that you're near.

Re: Spotify artists earn $167 per 1 million plays.

#12
To put that in perspective, $167 for 1 million plays is the equivalent of a CPM of $0.16 for an ad-supported web site. A bit on the low side, but $0.16 is in the right ballpark for a site with low-quality traffic.

I think the question is: is there any reason to expect music to be "worth" more than other types of online content?

Re: Spotify artists earn $167 per 1 million plays.

#13
I can't believe people are still using these terms, like 'making 0 dollars off of pirate bay' -- That's like saying a free newspaper doesn't earn any money from giving the paper away.

It's a argument people often make that are so entwined in the thinking of "selling music" like it was a physical thing...

This kind of thinking needs to stop.

Artists have more ways of making money today then they ever did, because they can do it themselves (and/or hire somebody to do it) - Selling live shows, selling merchendise, selling music in a form that makes it a "collectable", even music for films etc... The possibilities are there, but you need more omph than just standing in the garage bad-mouthing the downloaders while nobody will sign you up...

Re: Spotify artists earn $167 per 1 million plays.

#14
I believe they got their numbers wrong for the investments in Spotify from the record labels. I seriously doubt Spotify is valued at around 50,000 euros.

Artists are generally short changed when it comes to this sort of thing, whether it be selling music or streaming it. Artists make the bulk of their money in ticket and merchandise sales. It would be far more interesting to see how much the record companies are making per 1 million plays. It might also be shockingly low, but I somehow doubt that the record companies would sign a deal where they made little more than a few hundred bucks per 1 million plays.

Re: Spotify artists earn $167 per 1 million plays.

#15

This is only a problem if you think musicians need to be rich and famous. That is, before feeling bad for artists, remember that the cost of producing and distributing music has also gone way down. A desktop computer with electronic instruments is sufficient to cut a professional quality song. Artists who produce music will slowly become like bloggers. You will find them through the Internet and recommendation engine…

I'd say the internet has done more to support live music than to detract from it. If there was no internet, I may have gone to a few shows here and there when a big name artist came through town, but because of the internet, I listen to a much wider variety of bands and choose to support those artists by going to their concerts.

There's a totally different experience to actually being in a crowd listening to a band. I may have a (near) perfect recording on my computer or iPod, but there are many nuances that you miss out on when you listen to music at home.

From the artist's perspective, there's nothing like playing live. Playing in a studio is worlds apart from playing with your fans right in front of you. I know quite a few artists that love that, myself included.

Re: Spotify artists earn $167 per 1 million plays.

#16
post #13

I can't believe people are still using these terms, like 'making 0 dollars off of pirate bay' -- That's like saying a free newspaper doesn't earn any money from giving the paper away. It's a argument people often make that are so entwined in the thinking of "selling music" like it was a physical thing... This kind of thinking needs to stop. Artists have more ways of making money today then they ever did, because they…

selling music in a form that makes it a "collectable"

That's the big one for me. Much of the music I listen to (in the IDM, ambient and electronica genres) is sold in limited run printings now. It's not unheard of for a run of CDs or Vinyl to only amount to Ironically, that seems to make me feel more guilty about pirating the music when it's not available, although I suspect, as you say, it increases the value of owning a physical copy while decreasing the 'damage' done by piracy - I should feel less guilty that I had to download it.

Re: Spotify artists earn $167 per 1 million plays.

#17
post #12

To put that in perspective, $167 for 1 million plays is the equivalent of a CPM of $0.16 for an ad-supported web site. A bit on the low side, but $0.16 is in the right ballpark for a site with low-quality traffic. I think the question is: is there any reason to expect music to be "worth" more than other types of online content?

I guess it would depend (like the advertising) on what kind of demographics the population consists of. Pop music, because it is specifically designed to appeal to a broad spectrum of people, would have terribly nonspecific demographics. The weirder the genera, the more specific the audiance (usually), and thus higher "CPM".

Where's the sweet spot? Serving music has got to cost much more than serving a jpg ad, but maybe less than or equal to a flash ad (depending on the song and ad of course). I could very well be wrong about that though.

Re: Spotify artists earn $167 per 1 million plays.

#18
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only money I've ever made off of music is doing live gigs. Give your music away for almost nothing (or dirt cheap) and then play your own shows. Record sales as a way to profit probably should never have existed. I would not be surprised if music historians in the future look back on the 20th century record industry as an aberration that existed only in the time when live performances stopped being the singular w…

The only money I've ever made off of music is doing live gigs. Give your music away for almost nothing (or dirt cheap) and then play your own shows. This is The Problem for the record industry - there's an almost infinite supply of very talented musicians that are thrilled to do exactly what you suggest. That makes it extremely difficult to buy the argument that we won't have music anymore if people aren't willing to…

It's strange to me that some people seem to believe that artists would stop making art without economic incentive. As if somehow, the prospect of being financially rewarded is the differentiator between creating art and not. As long as you are making enough money to be comfortable (or maybe not, for some artists!) there's no amount of money you can offer someone to make them a better artist.

Yet another similarity between artists and programmers: you cannot get someone to create something that otherwise would not have been able to by offering money.

Re: Spotify artists earn $167 per 1 million plays.

#19
It'd be interesting to see how much money Spotify earned for those million plays.

I know that's probably a tough number to come up with but if it is $200 or $2000 then we can start to consider things in perspective.

I think everyone here will agree that it is complete FUD the amount of damages the record industry claim from illegal downloads - and that it is apparent some (though again I suspect not as many as people tend to claim) publicity and additional sales is created from illegal downloads.

In this sense perhaps Spotify is almost a loss leader; barely scraping a living on the idea that it's users are more likely to go out and buy an album or go to a concert. If that's the case they need to be more up front about it; otherwise fall outs like this will happen.

Of course it could well be that they are just ripping off artists. who knows.

Re: Spotify artists earn $167 per 1 million plays.

#20

Can payment agreements like this be used in court during filesharing lawsuits to show that if RIAA members are willing to value music at $167 per million plays there's no reasonable way they can argue that each mp3 someone shares is worth the thousands of dollars they sue people for? I recognize that these are apples to oranges, but there must be some reasonable conversion. Artist gets X amount per Y plays, and given…

> then either the RIAA should pay their artists fair value, which would drive more users to pay for music, or they can't sue people for so much per song.

The former scares them much more than the latter.

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