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Ask HN: Always late to the office, is this OK?
31–40 of 49 posts
Re: Ask HN: Always late to the office, is this OK?
#32On the one hand you can say it's an overreaction. On the other hand meeting commitments is a pretty basic life skill, and probably one you should learn. It is no harder to be places at 9:00 than it is to be there at 9:06. Being late often signals to the other people involved that you do not respect them or their time . Whether that is true or not, whether you mean to say that or not, that's the signal that is receive…
Re: Ask HN: Always late to the office, is this OK?
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes and no. Sending them home for being 6 minutes late is totally overkill (unless it's something that has occurred many times, and there have been warnings). Quitting for being sent home for a day also seems like an extreme reaction, though, especially if you like the job otherwise. I wouldn't call it time-fetishism, and I wouldn't say it's something limited to "older folks," that seems particularly unfair. I'm 24,…
Teams where it's a stigma, especially when we all know that time is fluid and productivity varies widely, even in spite of product shipped are bullshit and are getting eaten, slowly but surely, by flexible companies, remote workers, and Stuff-as-a-Service. Burn your timesheet, and focus on shipping. EDIT: There's literally no good reason, if you aren't facing customers, to sweat time variations, especially if doing s…
I'm not arguing for time sheets, or even any form of time tracking. Just that as a team, if we agree to show up to the office at a time, and someone isn't there then, you'll have feelings about it.
The part about teams that operate via timesheet is a bit of a stretch, imo. At least in larger orgs, I don't see the "need" (read: keeping middle-managers employed) for time tracking ever going away.
While I agree with the sentiment that time tracking is pretty useless, I don't think it's going to stop.
Re: Ask HN: Always late to the office, is this OK?
#34> Are there many programming jobs with more time flexibility that would fit me better? Is running late OK in the industry? Or should I be trying to fix this ~6 year behavior of running late? Has anyone dealt with similar issues?
Yes.
Yes, there are programming jobs that aren't nearly as strict on getting to one's desk at a specific time. This tends to be more the case with small businesses and startups (and big businesses that started off as stereotypical "startups" - i.e. the "unicorns" of lore) because of the proliferation of an attitude that how much (or little) time spent at one's desk is irrelevant so long as the employee in question gets his/her work done.
Yes, running late is OK in moderation, depending on the circumstance. Running late to a meeting is generally a bad idea (especially if the meeting is non-routine), but a lot of programming positions in particular aren't exactly strict about getting to one's desk on time. However...
Yes, you should be trying to fix this. Regardless of whether or not you're expected to arrive at work before a specific time, punctuality reflects well upon you, and will give folks who interact with you (not just employers, but also friends, spouses, and other peers) an impression that you value their time.
Yes, I've dealt with (and still deal with) similar issues, since I have the same tendency.
A trick I learned from my dad (who - according to my mom, at least - shares my tendency to procrastinate) is to internalize that "if you're not 15 minutes early, you're late". Try to be 15 minutes early to everything; if you had adopted this philosophy today, for example, you would've arrived at work at 8:51 - plenty of time to leave your things at your desk (proving that you are, in fact, at work), grab some coffee from the break room, and even read an HN article or two. If you can't get into the habit, then turn off the "sync clock with internet server" functionality of all your networked devices (phone, computer, etc.), roll all your clocks forward by 15 minutes, and then still try to aim for being 15 minutes early to everything according to your own clocks.
As briefly mentioned, this trick has tangible benefits beyond brain-hackery. If you're walking or biking to work (or some other engagement), it gives you some time to catch your breath. If you're driving, it gives you more time to make sure that you got all your things out of the car. In any case (as mentioned above) it might give you time to grab some coffee or a bagel or something from the break room before starting your shift, or smalltalk with the cute guy or girl three desks over from yours, or - at the very least - get an early start on the transition from not working to working (which tends to take anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour; this is one of the reasons why pretty much anyone who isn't in a management position absolutely despises meetings, since the interruption causes an abrupt transition from "working" to "not working" (whereas for supervisors, the meeting itself is a transition from "not working" to "working", since their job is to manage their subordinates)).
Re: Ask HN: Always late to the office, is this OK?
#35Your employers are idiots.
Re: Ask HN: Always late to the office, is this OK?
#36On the one hand you can say it's an overreaction. On the other hand meeting commitments is a pretty basic life skill, and probably one you should learn. It is no harder to be places at 9:00 than it is to be there at 9:06. Being late often signals to the other people involved that you do not respect them or their time . Whether that is true or not, whether you mean to say that or not, that's the signal that is receive…
Oh yeah. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_Ot1OEfk9I
It's all well and good for every bold young man to think that he is a unique and special snowflake, the "One" who can see through illusions, take the red pill, and become a superhero who saves the world.
In reality, you aren't that special and you have to work with others.
Re: Ask HN: Always late to the office, is this OK?
#37No, it's not OK. It's never OK to be "running late" according to however that is locally defined.
Even at a place that says, "We don't care when you come in or work at home, just as long as you're on site once a week on Wednesdays from noon to 3 pm," if you show up every Wednesday at 12:30 pm instead of at 12:00, your boss will get annoyed with you.
If there was a particular reason why you needed to come in at 9:05 instead of 9:00 every day, for example a bus schedule, that is a reasonable thing to negotiate.
The correct professional behavior (in ANY industry) is almost never to just ignore what your boss asks you repeatedly to do. The best thing when confronted by something like this is to openly discuss and negotiate the issue.
If you were sent home for the whole day, that sounds like a last warning at the end of a long series of failures to follow the customs of that particular company. If you don't come in on time on Monday, I suspect you will be fired immediately.
Re: Ask HN: Always late to the office, is this OK?
#38I have the same problem. I've come to learn that my issue is not that I am late all the time because I am lazy or disrespectful or whatever else one may think, but that I don't have a good sense for estimating how long things actually take. And, I am optimistic when estimating.
My solution is to become aware of how long things take throughout the day in an effort to make better efforts at planning. How long is my shower? How long does it take me to get dressed? How long does it take to get to my car and my actual commute, etc. With some real numbers, you can start to be realistic about what it takes you to get to work and so you can work backwards from there to make sure you leave on time. Works for me. I don't miss my train anymore.
Re: Ask HN: Always late to the office, is this OK?
#39I can relate to your situation. My wife, like you, seems to have some sort unshakeable predisposition to be late all the time. I on the other hand am always 5-10 minutes early. You can imagine my grumblings.
Getting up earlier is a question of motivation. Even my wife gets up at the crack of dawn if we are going somewhere special on a holiday. So I would guess that you are not motivated enough to make the effort of getting up 15 minutes earlier. You could fix the source of that problem. A bit of psychotherapy might be all you need.
As per @dropit_sphere, you might be under-motivated because you are under-paid and you probably chill out on the low-pressure environment.
Reading the other comments, you have options:
1. Take a job where you can set your own hours.
2. Take a job where you get paid a lot more, challenged and motivated to change for the better, including being on time.
3. Get your lateness behaviour dealt with.
4. Don't do anything, wait till you get fired then re-consider 1-3 above.
Re: Ask HN: Always late to the office, is this OK?
#40I developed the same habit in high school. It was really annoying to pretty much everyone I ever had a meeting with (or a class or a date or whatever). I lost a couple of really good jobs because of it. You really just need to change your habits. It's totally doable, too, if you convince yourself that you need a few minutes before the meeting starts to gather your thoughts or whatever.
Just set expectations appropriately and meet them. Show up when you say you're going to, and if you don't, have a damn good reason why you didn't. I have no idea why so many highly paid professionals are saying something other than that.