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The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

nytimes.com

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Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#121

Post by stinkytaco »

caseysoftware wrote: post #100
bruceb wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...it's considered anti-feminist to believe that women want to find a man to marry or have kids." Where is this said? Straw man runs wild.

Let's test this. Tweet something like: "I believe most women want to find a man to marry and have kids" and please share your responses.

I think the point that's being made is that it's really orthogonal to the argument, not that it is true or false. Whether or not women desire to get married and have a family really has nothing to do with men making the same choices, whatever their reasons might be.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#122

Post by enraged_camel »

kidsthesedays wrote: post #73
mrybczyn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, they always lose custody of their children, one of the main points of marriage...

Complete BS. I've known many men who have sole or primary custody of their children including my sister in law's former husband. I also grew up with some kids who lived with the dads most of the time. This meme has to end because it isn't true. Sure, maybe most of the time the woman gets it but always is a complete lie.

You missed the point entirely. The contention is society's automatic assumption that it's better to give custody of children to the mother, as opposed to the father. That's why women end up with the kids the vast majority of the time, and the only time they don't is when there's seriously wrong with them (e.g. abusive, mentally ill, etc.).

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#123

Post by mskd432223 »

I'm probably considered one of these 'men who doesn't work'.

I finished my Bachelor's in Spring 2009 in finance, right after the collapse and took the first shitty job I could find. After a couple more finance related positions, I decided I needed to be doing something different and started teaching myself CS, Math, Stats.

I built a few moderately successful iPhone apps, enrolled in Harvard Extension's distance courses. The past couple years have been me teaching myself, taking distance courses, and doing contract work now and then.

I'm a decent programmer and built some pretty cool things.

I'm in the Bay Area (East Bay) and live in a crappy apartment and burning through what is left of my savings. I don't have a job. I don't have contract work. I don't have friends that work in the industry and grew up fairly poor.

Not asking for a 'pity-party', I guess I'm not sure what the next step is and feel disillusioned and paralyzed. I've never had a real job in Tech, I don't have credentials and not sure where to get started.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#124

Post by caseysoftware »

learnstats2 wrote: post #88
caseysoftware wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I specifically said "to stabilize and build a little savings" and nothing about retirement. It's great that you've cut unnecessary things. But I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about the overall trends and data: According to Mintel[1][2], 57% of those making less than $35k own pets. Further, 34% of people without a high school diploma and 31% of those with only a high school diploma smoke[3]. Odds are those two…

> Social norm or not, you have to prioritize and make hard choices. Yes, my point is that you have to prioritize and make hard choices to live at that level of income; not to build savings. (I edited my parent comment because I didn't feel my personal data was really relevant, sorry for any confusion.)

And by editing your comment, you've completely changed your argument. Well played.

In my original - and still unedited - comment I said: "cutting out all the non-necessities for a few years to stabilize and build a little savings is a great thing everyone should be encouraged to do."

It's not about "not welcome to..." anything, it's about making hard choices for a while to have better options in the future.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#125

Post by caseysoftware »

bruceb wrote: post #117
caseysoftware wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's test this. Tweet something like: "I believe most women want to find a man to marry and have kids" and please share your responses.

If you say it like it is the ONLY thing women want but saying part of most women's life plan is to find a man to marry and have kids, very few people will disagree.

I didn't say "only" you inferred that. It seems like you're the one that has constructed the straw man from what I said.

But as I suggested, why not test it?

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#126

Post by __abc »

ashark wrote: post #102
__abc wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

THIS! I have two kids, and it's fairly easy (at least before starting school / sports) 1 - Second hands clothes, toys, etc are super cheap 1.1 - Hand me down across the extended family and your family (seriously, they grow out of it in minutes, try not to buy it new) 2 - Your kids don't need a lot of toys and crayons and paper are cheap 3 - GO TO THE LIBRARY 4 - Parks are really fun, and really cheap, as in free Wher…

Most places, the areas with the "10/10" public schools cost more to live in, between property taxes and higher purchase prices for houses (because the schools are good, so demand is high). They may also be farther from where the jobs are (more often than not, I'd guess), unless you want to pay even more for both prime location and good schools, assuming such a thing even exists where you live. Higher transportation c…

I am probably an outlier here, but I stalked my neighborhood and pounced on a house that was WAY on the low end for the area thus in my budget and literally has lowest prop taxes.

My ONLY point being, my family wanted a house sooner, but we waited, and waited, and waited it out to find one that met our financial needs in the area we wanted.

IF you do that (knowing it the stars may not line up) it's incredibly helpful.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#127

Post by astrange »

mskd432223 wrote: post #123

I'm probably considered one of these 'men who doesn't work'. I finished my Bachelor's in Spring 2009 in finance, right after the collapse and took the first shitty job I could find. After a couple more finance related positions, I decided I needed to be doing something different and started teaching myself CS, Math, Stats. I built a few moderately successful iPhone apps, enrolled in Harvard Extension's distance cours…

I think you're already well positioned to get interviews. Most people don't have published iOS apps nor do they already live in the Bay, so you should be able to get something out of whatever the hot jobs site is these days.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#128

Post by TheLoneWolfling »

caseysoftware wrote: post #77
TheLoneWolfling wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a student, I've gotten laughed at for having a prepaid (and cheap) cell phone. Saves me several hundred a year, easily. Ditto: I don't drink, and I don't have a car. And I still struggle. Don't know how some students do it.

The good news is that if you're working in STEM, this is probably the worst time you'll ever have.

Not really.

My mother also went through for a degree in a STEM field. And got caught in a bubble of biochemists. To the point where people with PHDs are applying for research tech work.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#129

Post by caseysoftware »

hrehhf wrote: post #105
caseysoftware wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good news is that if you're working in STEM, this is probably the worst time you'll ever have.

"probably" may be true, but do not listen to this comment and become complacent! Struggle in work/school will be necessary for a long time to get out of being poor and comments like this make it sound like its as simple as getting a STEM degree or job. Its not.

No, it's not a golden ticket. You still have to work hard, constantly learn, and expand/refresh your skills.

But someone studying STEM is already doing those things and it's much easier to continue doing them than to start in the first place. "An object in motion.." and all that.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#130

Post by andreyf »

enraged_camel wrote: post #17
andreyf wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "not protected in case of a separation"?

He's referring to the fact that men lose a significant portion (usually half, sometimes more) of their financial assets during divorce. Protection in this case refers to signing certain agreements before or during marriage.

Assets in a marriage belong to the legal union of two people, so it's not surprising that everyone loses roughly half of what they co-owned. Is there a law somewhere which is preferential for one gender over another in divorce? The separation of assets depends on a lot of factors, but gender is not one of them, afaik.
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