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The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

nytimes.com

41–50 of 147 posts

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#41
post #2

What about prison? It's ~1% of the adult populaion.

Or 5% of the black adult male population in the United States. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics_of_incarcerated_Afri... and a 30% chance of being in prison over a lifetime http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/19/usa.garyyounge

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#42
post #12

Partially related to having a family becoming more risky for men. If you are not protected in case of a separation, you are less likely to want to commit to a family. If there is no family, there is less motivation to earn more.

I find that a pretty suspect statement, and I'm not sure I've ever encountered any man who's decided to avoid starting a family for that reason.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#44

It seems a lot more possible these days, both socially and economically, to go into "partial retirement" at around age 30. Developers can pull this off without much effort. 2-20X the pay for our work, little expectation of company loyalty nor stigma for resume gaps or job hopping, crazy skewed market to ensure that a new contract is only a Facebook/LinkedIn/Twitter update away. Why would anybody spend their 30s not t…

There's a subreddit dedicated to this idea, although I warn you it's largely terrible. http://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence Basically the only reason most people struggle financially in the US is due to their own financial illiteracy and living above their means. If you manage not to fall victim to either of those then you can save a substantial portion of your income towards a very early retirement should y…

Basically the only reason most people struggle financially in the US is due to their own financial illiteracy and living above their means

We've also chosen, collectively and as a society, to make a lot of high-productivity places artificially expensive: http://www.amazon.com/Rent-Too-Damn-High-Matters-ebook/dp/B0...

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#45
post #12

Partially related to having a family becoming more risky for men. If you are not protected in case of a separation, you are less likely to want to commit to a family. If there is no family, there is less motivation to earn more.

I know you're getting marked down for this, but I have read other articles talking about the withdrawal of men from the dating/marriage marketplace. I think it is a growing phenomonen for men to drop out like that.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#46
post #2

What about prison? It's ~1% of the adult populaion.

Perhaps the more interesting question since the prison population is excluded: what about ex-cons? Ex-cons have a much more difficult finding work for a variety of reasons, and I believe that ex-cons as a percentage of the work force is significantly more than it used to be. So how much of the rise of non-working males is due to the rise in the number of ex-cons?

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a subreddit dedicated to this idea, although I warn you it's largely terrible. http://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence Basically the only reason most people struggle financially in the US is due to their own financial illiteracy and living above their means. If you manage not to fall victim to either of those then you can save a substantial portion of your income towards a very early retirement should y…

> Basically the only reason most people struggle financially in the US is due to their own financial illiteracy and living above their means. If you manage not to fall victim to either of those then you can save a substantial portion of your income towards a very early retirement should you choose to do so. That is really only true for households above the median income. So "most" is not a factual statement. About ha…

If you can only save a few thousand a year then you fall firmly into the "living above their means" category in my personal opinion. Having children you cannot afford is a common way that lower income people live above their means, even if it sounds crass to word it in that way.

My anecdotal experience working alongside lower class workers is that most of them run into trouble through trying to live a middle class lifestyle without the income to support it. They buy new cars, they eat out often, they refuse to work more than 40 hrs/wk, and they live in pricier apartments without roommates. All of these mistakes tie into the financial illiteracy that plagues people who were never exposed to those with good money habits.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a subreddit dedicated to this idea, although I warn you it's largely terrible. http://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence Basically the only reason most people struggle financially in the US is due to their own financial illiteracy and living above their means. If you manage not to fall victim to either of those then you can save a substantial portion of your income towards a very early retirement should y…

> Basically the only reason most people struggle financially in the US is due to their own financial illiteracy and living above their means. If you manage not to fall victim to either of those then you can save a substantial portion of your income towards a very early retirement should you choose to do so. That is really only true for households above the median income. So "most" is not a factual statement. About ha…

I agree that most is silly. Certainly many though.

Consider: When I was single I lived a very very very comfortable life on $22,000 a year (cash, not income). I put that much in my checking account and everything else in savings and investment. This was after I spent several years putting the majority of my pay on loans to become debt free and paid off the $60,000 in student loans and a very small car loan.

If someone makes a salary of $30,000 a year than they probably take home around $22,000 after taxes and insurance. It would be much less comfortable for them to have a lot of savings. True, not impossible, but much much harder than me since their takehome pay is equal to my "frugal" pay. They would have to give up much more than I do. Obviously you can't max out your 401(k) and IRA on that salary, maxing those out would be more than your take home pay! Basically - not possible until you get past median income (which is around $50k)

As an aside I don't think children have to be that expensive... Granted I don't have them but I see all my friends spending a massive amount of money on very silly things for their kids. Nobody needs the majority of crap that is bought for kids. Household size has, IIR, doubled in the last 60 years. It isn't like kids' needs have changed to take up double space since my grandparents were raising them - it is parents just give them more.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#49
post #6

You have to wonder which of those trends are "secular" (in the economics sense) and which are indirect causes of high unemployment. The article already hints at this: Apart from the young cohort (until mid-20s), the rise in men going to school is probably less about an increased desire for education and more about an inability to find work. More men caring for their families may be a good thing (increasing equality b…

> And is it really plausible that more men are disabled today compared to 15 years ago?

Sure. The population is much older than it was 15 years ago.

I wouldn't care to speculate whether that makes up all the difference, but having a disability and trying to overcome ageism at the same time sounds pretty brutal.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

#50
post #33
post #12

Partially related to having a family becoming more risky for men. If you are not protected in case of a separation, you are less likely to want to commit to a family. If there is no family, there is less motivation to earn more.

I think unicorns are also playing a role. Unicorns are monopolizing rainbows and without rainbows men cannot find the will to work. Both of our comments are completely random, uncited, and not even mentioned in the article.

Some men will get stable work so they can sustain a family. If they don't think it's worth it to have a family, maybe they don't care as much about having a stable job. And more men are deciding it's not worth it. I don't know if it's true, but I can see the connection. I would be doing things a lot differently if I didn't have people I needed to take care of.
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