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Ask HN: Learning a foreign language

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Re: Ask HN: Learning a foreign language

#31

Post by xaybey »

dimitar wrote: post #11

If there was a short-cut, wouldn't everyone take it? Here are some tips: * Finding a Russian-speaking buddy you could go out with shouldn't be too hard look. Look around for local ex-pats - at least Russian-speakers are everywhere. No need to actually go to Russia. * Drink a small amount of alcohol when practising speaking - its called a social lubricant for a reason. Or do things you enjoy - find a buddy you could t…

I never thought about having a drink before speaking Russian - that probably would help muffle my self consciousness.

Re: Ask HN: Learning a foreign language

#32

Post by xaybey »

redsable wrote: post #30

I am a language teacher, so factor that into the advice that follows: 1. Find a language teacher that excels at teaching beginners. Tell the teacher that you only want to study 1 hour a week but that you promise to do 6-10 hours a week of homework (for at least 3 months). Ask for a plan from the teacher based on this schedule. A good teacher is much like a good doctor and should be able to give you a good plan. The t…

IYO, what is the best audio to listen to? Tapes for language learners? Radio? Subtitled movies?

Re: Ask HN: Learning a foreign language

#33

Post by xaybey »

leap_ahead wrote: post #28

Not quite giving you any tips, but a word of warning. Avoid learning Russian through Russian-language community sites based on user-submitted content such as comments, posts etc. For the last couple of decades we've been seeing a trend of getting more and more people who are illiterate in writing, with the last three years seeing an explosive epidemic on our hands. It is now very rare to see user-submitted content wr…

I don't know exactly what you're referring to (I do read pikabu sometimes). I've always heard writing correctly is less important than writing at all. Do you suggest that this isn't true, that sloppy grammar isn't something that can be improved later?

Re: Ask HN: Learning a foreign language

#34

Post by xaybey »

panglott wrote: post #19

Don't think about it as "language learning" or "language study". That is not how humans learn languages. Think about it as "language acquisition", something you will pick up over time. There is a bunch of research about this, much of it focused on classroom methods, however. Search for books on "second language acquisition"; but the only popular science book I know of isn't coming out until August: http://www.amazon.…

I don't know where I got the idea that one can reach fluency in a year (especially without living in the country). Perhaps the marketing weasels. Thanks for the perspective.

Re: Ask HN: Learning a foreign language

#35

Post by xaybey »

gyardley wrote: post #21

Russian's a fun one, that's for sure. Stupid noun declension. Immersion's still your best bet. If you've got the time and the money to put towards this, I'd recommend a intensive summer program like Middlebury College's Language School - if you're in Silicon Valley, they've also got a similar one in Monterey. For two months they put you in a group of about a dozen with the same level of Russian you've got, make you v…

Unfortunately they don't seem to teach Russian. Is there an advantage to this type of immersion as opposed to just moving to russia for a month?

Re: Ask HN: Learning a foreign language

#36

Post by xaybey »

simonblack wrote: post #2

Immersion seems to be the best way. Just use the foreign-language all the time. Those of us who have gone along the foreign language route seem to find that it takes a short but definite time-lag within the brain when 'switching out' the foreign-language and 'switching-in' the native-language. And then the same thing happens with the reverse, you have to 'switch-out' the native-language, and 'switch-in' the foreign-l…

The time lag bit rings true. I think you're describing a longer term version of the peopleware phenonmenon, where a programmer needs 15 minutes without distraction to "get in the zone".

Re: Ask HN: Learning a foreign language

#37

Post by xaybey »

laboo wrote: post #18

You're at the foot of Mt. Everest asking if there's a shortcut to the top. Learning a second language is like having a child. It's a life long commitment that will consume much of your time for 10 years or so, assuming you really want to be fluent, and will require maintenance thereafter. Consider learning Russian history and culture instead if it sounds too daunting. That's almost always a better choice for native E…

Well, I was asking if I was wearing the right kind of boots. The conclusion seems to be that while there are many boots to choose from, none will make you walk any faster.

I think your suggestion about history and culture is wise. Sometimes when I get tired of learning the language I'll read Russian politics or recipes, just to remind myself why I'm trying to learn it in the first place.

Re: Ask HN: Learning a foreign language

#38

Post by leap_ahead »

xaybey wrote: post #33
leap_ahead wrote: post #28

Not quite giving you any tips, but a word of warning. Avoid learning Russian through Russian-language community sites based on user-submitted content such as comments, posts etc. For the last couple of decades we've been seeing a trend of getting more and more people who are illiterate in writing, with the last three years seeing an explosive epidemic on our hands. It is now very rare to see user-submitted content wr…

I don't know exactly what you're referring to (I do read pikabu sometimes). I've always heard writing correctly is less important than writing at all. Do you suggest that this isn't true, that sloppy grammar isn't something that can be improved later?

I was trying to highlight the fact that if you intend on improving your Russian by hanging out on Russian community sites, you're going to be learning broken language and will be doing yourself a disservice in that regard.

I realize I talked about a local problem that the global community is unaware of. In short, people are becoming increasingly illiterate, as in they cannot compose grammatically correct texts, coherently express their thoughts and sometimes cannot understand certain words from the imaginative literature from just 50 years ago. People used to have large bookshelves at homes during Soviet times, now the majority doesn't read anything except what they can find on social networks. As it is, they unlearn correct language and learn broken language from their own illiterate fellows. If you attempt to interact with the community online, you will learn wrong things. And I cannot say if it would be possible to relearn the corrected variants later. Better not go down that road.

Basically I'm talking about: wrong spelling of words, non-existent words, wrong expressions, wrong combinations of words, ways of constructing sentences that are wrong and incomprehensible, not to mention a large amount of curse words. You really don't want any of these.

As to the language itself, while it is massively different from English and related languages families, it is a natural language derived from the lifestyle of our ancestors. Words are sufficiently different from each other to be easily recognized and sometimes their sounding alone can give you an idea of what these could mean like something good or bad or whatever emotions they might express. Way better than learning German words for instance.

I'm struggling to give you some useful advice, not being a language teacher however I'm not quite sure where I can help. I'm dwelling on that though.

Re: Ask HN: Learning a foreign language

#39

Post by xaybey »

Cepr0 wrote: post #13

Попробуйте учить на память русские детские стихи. Аналогично тому как это делают дети в детстве, когда они учатся говорить. Из авторов рекомендую: Михалоква, Маршака, Чуковоского и Барто ( http://deti-online.com/stihi/ ) Try to learn by heart Russian poems for children. In the same way as they do it in childhood, when they learn to talk. I recommend to start from the the authors: Mihalokv, Marshak, Chukovoskiy and Ba…

отлично, большой спасибо!

Re: Ask HN: Learning a foreign language

#40

Post by seanccox »

xaybey wrote: post #32
redsable wrote: post #30

I am a language teacher, so factor that into the advice that follows: 1. Find a language teacher that excels at teaching beginners. Tell the teacher that you only want to study 1 hour a week but that you promise to do 6-10 hours a week of homework (for at least 3 months). Ask for a plan from the teacher based on this schedule. A good teacher is much like a good doctor and should be able to give you a good plan. The t…

IYO, what is the best audio to listen to? Tapes for language learners? Radio? Subtitled movies?

When I was learning Turkish, I spent a summer listening to an hour-long talk radio show every morning. Three guys chatting about local issues and making jokes, with callers phoning in to offer their opinions. It bumped my comprehension to effectively fluent, and I learned a lot of colloquialisms that make me sound more fluent than I actually feel when I speak.
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