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Ask HN: How do I put together a computer for my blind mom?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I put together a computer for my blind mom?

#61

Post by robin_reala »

walterbell wrote: post #38
cmaury wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is true, it turns out the lack of buttons isn't as limiting as you might think. You may not have haptic feedback, but you still have the ability to explore the screen using your spacial/tactile senses. By touching the screen and dragging your finger around you can explore what is displayed on the screen. The phone will read aloud the label of what ever item your finger is touching. For an much more in-dept…

Thanks for the reference. Has there been research on radial menus for this use case? E.g. touch anywhere in the middle of the screen to define the center of the radial menu, then move in a circle to discover the radial menu options. This would reduce the surface area to be traversed. If we ever get haptic feedback on mobile devices, this could be used to signal transition between "pie slices" of the radial menu. http…

Have you used VoiceOver? Both iOS and OS X versions have a rotor menu that activates with a two finger touch and twist motion to give access to various sets of items.

Re: Ask HN: How do I put together a computer for my blind mom?

#62

Post by JoshTriplett »

tjohns wrote: post #10

I'd recommend looking at a tablet, either Android or iOS. Navigation is simpler in general, which means navigating via the screen reader (TTS) is going to be easier. You also get access to Google Now / Siri, which is nice in this case because it gives you a natural language interface to some of the information on the web — especially since many websites don't play nicely with screen readers. Another option you could…

> Another option you could look at, if you really want to go with a desktop computer, is a braille terminal (https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Refreshable_braille_display). I've seen some blind colleagues at work use them, but I don't know how the usability compares to a screen reader.

My understanding, based on conversations with and writings by blind users of Debian, is that a braille terminal is helpful for the bandwidth and context it provides, and useful as a supplement to interact with many programs (especially as an engineer spending lots of time in terminals and editors), but not satisfactory as a complete substitute for a screenreader and accessible applications, even if you spent 100% of your time in a terminal.

Re: Ask HN: How do I put together a computer for my blind mom?

#63

Post by largote »

ArcticCelt wrote: post #13
cmaury wrote: post #8

Unfortunately there isn't a good solution for this, especially on the desktop. You may have a much better time with an iphone/ipad/ipod touch. The interface is much simpler than a desktop, and VoiceOver is much easier to use than JAWS. Apps that can help (there isn't one catch all) Apple mail is pretty simple, and fully VO compatible Voice Dream Reader simple text to speech app that syncs with pocket, evernote, dropb…

>You may have a much better time with an iphone/ipad/ipod touch The biggest problem with modern intelligent phones, specially apple ones, is that there is zero tactile feedback on the screen vs good old buttons or keyboard.

At least on Android, you can plug in a keyboard and navigate that way in a lot of apps while using TalkBack.

Re: Ask HN: How do I put together a computer for my blind mom?

#64

Post by jareds »

I'm a totally blind programmer who uses Windows as my PC operating system and an iPhone for my smart phone. For basic email and internet browsing I'd have her try an iPhone or iPad mini. I've found an iPhone much easier to use then an iPad do to spacial layout being different on a larger screen. I started out with an iPhone though so if she starts with an iPad this may not be an issue. I'd stay away from an iPod touch if possible unless updated hardware comes out. I've found the iPhone 4s to be a bit sluggish but usable with voiceover. Since the iPod touch has 4s hardware I assume you would run into the same issues. If you know someone with an old iPhone or iPod touch though she could always try it and if she gets comfortable upgrade to newer hardware.

Re: Ask HN: How do I put together a computer for my blind mom?

#67

Post by amalcon »

ArcticCelt wrote: post #13
cmaury wrote: post #8

Unfortunately there isn't a good solution for this, especially on the desktop. You may have a much better time with an iphone/ipad/ipod touch. The interface is much simpler than a desktop, and VoiceOver is much easier to use than JAWS. Apps that can help (there isn't one catch all) Apple mail is pretty simple, and fully VO compatible Voice Dream Reader simple text to speech app that syncs with pocket, evernote, dropb…

>You may have a much better time with an iphone/ipad/ipod touch The biggest problem with modern intelligent phones, specially apple ones, is that there is zero tactile feedback on the screen vs good old buttons or keyboard.

I was surprised by this too, but iDevices are extremely popular with blind people.

This is one of the few places where I give iDevices a lot of credit. Apple knew that touchscreens have certain disadvantages in that regard, and put a lot of thought into features that overcome those disadvantages. The result is something that's in many ways more usable for a blind person than a full-sized computer.

Source: A family member volunteered to help blind students for a while.

Re: Ask HN: How do I put together a computer for my blind mom?

#68

Post by walterbell »

robin_reala wrote: post #61
walterbell wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the reference. Has there been research on radial menus for this use case? E.g. touch anywhere in the middle of the screen to define the center of the radial menu, then move in a circle to discover the radial menu options. This would reduce the surface area to be traversed. If we ever get haptic feedback on mobile devices, this could be used to signal transition between "pie slices" of the radial menu. http…

Have you used VoiceOver? Both iOS and OS X versions have a rotor menu that activates with a two finger touch and twist motion to give access to various sets of items.

I've enabled VoiceOver for testing but had not seen that gesture, thanks for the pointer. It is useful but slightly awkward as you need both fingers to retain contact with the screen while rotating, which is challenging for a 360 degree rotation :)

Re: Ask HN: How do I put together a computer for my blind mom?

#69

Post by Riseed »

primitivesuave wrote: post #7

If you have a Mac, you can create AppleScripts to automate most of the functions that the average computer user performs. You can put each of these AppleScripts in the "Speakable Items" folder, and the file name of the script will become the command that your mother says to activate the script.

If you're using VoiceOver, you can also use keybindings to activate an AppleScript, by creating a VoiceOver commander[0]. "Open Mail" is a built-in commander, activated by pressing option-m. (Default is right option key, but preference can be changed to left or both.)

[0] http://www.applevis.com/guides/mac-os-x/understanding-and-us...

Re: Ask HN: How do I put together a computer for my blind mom?

#70

Post by Riseed »

I am fully sighted, and occasionally use VoiceOver for accessibility testing. I found it a little difficult to use while learning because it wasn't how I was used to navigating, but after a few hours I was fine. When you first enable VoiceOver, you're given the option to take a VoiceOver tutorial which goes through basic keyboard commands and web navigation. After the tutorial, I found most of the keybindings I needed by searching the text on this page: http://lab.dotjay.co.uk/notes/voiceover-commands/

I was curious, so I had "Alex" read me some news from http://www.20minutos.es (first Spanish-language newspaper I found), and he did not have a Spanish accent. Perhaps there's a better voice in a Spanish localization of OS X.

I recommend using VoiceOver with QuickNav on because that makes navigation much easier. VoiceOver also allows you to set keybindings for launching AppleScripts, which you might be able to leverage to remove some of the complexity from learning/using VoiceOver: http://www.applevis.com/guides/mac-os-x/understanding-and-us...

Apple has a handy keybinding reference, which is VoiceOver accessible: http://help.apple.com/voiceover/vo/en/VOKeysColor_1.html

Applevis is a great community, and so far I've found an answer to all of my other questions by searching their forums: http://www.applevis.com

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