Ask HN: Learning a foreign language

How do we learn to talk when we are toddlers? You point at something and ask what is it, you learn its name, you repeat it out loud (use it in a few phrases, with more or less success). You generally ask something about it, too (what does it do, why is it so big, etc...). So when you are done, you know the name, the use, how does it looks like, what does it do, etc.

You have to understand that just memorising words or phrases won't get you very far. You need to associate these words with something that makes sense to you, to fully understand and integrate them into your brain.

I teach myself languages as a hobby, now and then. I've learnt some Japanese and Chinese, for example (using iKnow [1], great website and apps). I wanted to learn the Russian alphabet but was having a hard time reading the characters until I came across an article [2] which provides cheeky associative method. It's brilliant, I can read any text in Russian now (I can't understand it yet, but hey, it's a first step!).

[1] http://iknow.jp/ [2] http://gadling.com/2009/03/30/gadling-teaches-you-to-read-th...

An interesting thing I've noticed about language learning is that it is different from most skills in that the vast majority of its practitioners are basically expert level. Learning a new language is uncommon enough that I rarely met other people who had spent the same amount of time learning the same language as me. So you end up judging yourself by an internal sense of progress, by the things you can and can't do. This is sort of like if you were learning to play the piano and everyone else but a few dabblers were playing at or near the level of Mozart. Also interesting is that language learners are always a master of at least one other language, so you inevitably compare yourself in that way also. It can really skew your expectations.

Also a lot of times in language learning is sort of all our nothing. Comprehension drops very fast or each additional thing you don't understand in a sentence. So progress can feel very slow and then suddenly you have a big jump in understanding.

Sounds like duolingo :)

Not quite giving you any tips, but a word of warning. Avoid learning Russian through Russian-language community sites based on user-submitted content such as comments, posts etc. For the last couple of decades we've been seeing a trend of getting more and more people who are illiterate in writing, with the last three years seeing an explosive epidemic on our hands. It is now very rare to see user-submitted content written with the quality ready for publication. Speaking of reasons, there are many. Young people don't like to study and become smart so they don't read books anymore. Basically they hang out online and learn illiterate language from each other, such that these incorrect forms of speech have now proliferated to every corner of the web, polluting everything and affecting the rest of the Internet users, gradually replacing the correct forms with the wrong ones in their minds.

If I were to take HN community for example, this level of quality writing many display while expressing their thoughts cannot be found on the Russian community sites anymore.

There is also a staggering amount of hate speech and insults of all kinds. Most of it is not moderated as this style of interaction has become the standard way for most users. If it were to be moderated, it would mean wiping out over 90% of the user-submitted content resulting in a substantial drop of traffic, so nobody is doing it.

Many people (myself included) are now ignoring Russian sites seeing them as dumping grounds, preferring to stick with the international community instead.

Read books, not the modern ones, but those from at least 30-40 years ago. That's where you find a rich beautiful language in all its colors and the depth of thought.

I am a language teacher, so factor that into the advice that follows: 1. Find a language teacher that excels at teaching beginners. Tell the teacher that you only want to study 1 hour a week but that you promise to do 6-10 hours a week of homework (for at least 3 months). Ask for a plan from the teacher based on this schedule. A good teacher is much like a good doctor and should be able to give you a good plan. The teacher should be able to fill those 6-10 hours with productive work.

2. Do not evaluate yourself based on what you can produce (say) but rather on what you can understand. Listening in particular is the royal road to language learning. Also, if you can understand slow normal speech you will have personal proof of progress which will reduce self-doubt. Remember communication is not possible without understanding.

3. Make sure that you have mastered all the phonemes in the target language. By doing this first you can avoid many problems later.