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The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

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Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#251

Post by javert »

Nursie wrote: post #193
parennoob wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is exactly what my most outspoken-feminist female friend does. Outspoken feminism can mean many things. Examples of outspoken feminism also include Jezebel, a mainstream feminist website that is highly popular with my female friends. It publishes an article saying "Have You Ever Beat Up a Boyfriend? Because, Uh, We Have" that includes lines like "...slapped a guy when "he told me he thought he had breast cance…

In my case I meant my most outspoken feminist friend - i.e. someone who does not hide it and folds feminism into her outlook on life and her everyday actions. Also please note that at no point have I said "all feminism is good and right all the time", I think much of the hysterical stuff on the net is counterproductive (at best) and some of it is downright hostile to all men. --edit-- But I think that there is 'good'…

Nothing can be good if it chooses to go by the same label as a lot of bad.

"Good" feminists provide cover for "bad" feminists. Thus, all feminists are bad.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#252

Post by Nursie »

javert wrote: post #251
Nursie wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my case I meant my most outspoken feminist friend - i.e. someone who does not hide it and folds feminism into her outlook on life and her everyday actions. Also please note that at no point have I said "all feminism is good and right all the time", I think much of the hysterical stuff on the net is counterproductive (at best) and some of it is downright hostile to all men. --edit-- But I think that there is 'good'…

Nothing can be good if it chooses to go by the same label as a lot of bad. "Good" feminists provide cover for "bad" feminists. Thus, all feminists are bad.

So there's no good cake because bad cake exists?

I'm not quite buying that.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#253

Post by beachstartup »

kaitai wrote: post #191
beachstartup wrote: post #21

look, men are disposable. and it's always been this way, biologically speaking. throughout most of history, mens' purpose was disposability - through soldiering, exploring, entrepreneurialism (the high risk / high reward activities), or just working your fuckin' ass to the bone in the fields of fealty or a in a grey cubicle (the low risk / low reward activities). let's define some terms. "meaning of life" (note i did…

Women have been disposable throughout history too. Even in societies that respected women, maternal mortality (death during childbirth) was pretty common (and still is in the US). In societies that didn't like having so many women, abortion or infanticide were/are common (see sex ratios in China and India today). Men get killed in wars and at work. Women get killed in wars and having babies. Both are exposed to diffe…

you're that guy (or gal!) that insists on bringing up women in every discussion about men.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#254

Post by beachstartup »

myanonhnaccount wrote: post #40
meatysnapper wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing like a large population of angry young men who are under-employed and over-educated. The Arab Spring/chaos started with a guy lighting himself on fire because he didn't have work, and a lot of the fundamentalist appeal over there is that at least it gives you a purpose.

I've often thought this, every now and then you get a guy that goes off (shooting spree, whatever) - one of these days, one of those people who go off the deep end may be an extremely technically gifted, it would be scary what sort of havoc that type of a person could wreak if they set their mind to it.

in other words, the unabomber.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#255

Post by Nursie »

exo762 wrote: post #177
Nursie wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> And you are conflating anti-feminism with misogyny. No, I'm not, in fact I'm explicitly and deliberately not doing that, as I said here - "I'll concede that a lot of outspoken feminists often try to intentionally confuse this issue as well, painting anyone who disagrees with any facet of feminism, no matter how extreme, as being misogynist." >> Feminism can't be natural ally of mens' rights because it is actively…

They are not in opposition when it comes to idea and desired end goal. They are pretty much in opposition when it comes to political means of reaching that goal. You can't have social change without support of large part of population. MRM caters mostly to men, Feminism caters mostly to women. > Women campaigning for greater access to the workplace, and against street harassment, are not in opposition to men wanting…

>> I really hope that you are right and both movements can actually come and act together.

Fat chance, humans being what they are...

(Yeah, I'm a closet misanthrope!)

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#256

Post by hamax »

erroneousfunk wrote: post #243
ebfe wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually not true. Compared to men, women: * Live longer * Are less likely to kill themselves * Are less likely to be the victim of violence * Are better protected under the law if they are victimized * Are less likely to be homeless (and receive more support if they are) * Receive shorter sentences for the same crimes * Are less likely to be victims of police brutality (the disparity between men and women is…

You're going to need citations for a lot of those statistics... http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024233028 http://www.pnas.org/content/109/41/16474 You could also make a similar list of complaints about the "advantages that men have," which are obviously numerous. Everyone has it bad.

Why the hack is this getting downvoted while the ridiculous post above is getting all the upvotes.

What's wrong with this community?

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#257

Post by ryanx435 »

curun1r wrote: post #32
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #10

The demonization of all things male has had a pernicious effect on boys and men over the last 20 years. I've seen it negatively impact friends and, worse, my own boys. Oone of the best things I ever did was cut the live TV feed and the commercials that only show men as drunken idiots, drunken leches, or bumbling idiots (notice: drunken and idiots is a repeating theme). As a society, we need to come to terms with masc…

I think you're right about society's role, but I see a much more pernicious tendency that I think damages boys and, eventually, men. Society teaches boys to bottle up their feelings. "Be a man" means be strong, and don't show emotion. Crying is a sign of weakness. And god forbid you talk about your emotions...that's a female thing. But the thing is, those activities are what allow us to be vulnerable and what allow u…

I'm going to have to fundamentally disagree with you. those activities are NOT what allow males to bond with others. it is OK to show emotion, but not vulnerability or weakness. male friendship and bonding is orthogonally different from female friendship and bonding.

source: personal experience. all of my male friends and I bond through good natured ribbing of eachother. all of my female friends and I bond through shared good emotional experiences.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#258

Post by ryanx435 »

mreiland wrote: post #122
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #10

The demonization of all things male has had a pernicious effect on boys and men over the last 20 years. I've seen it negatively impact friends and, worse, my own boys. Oone of the best things I ever did was cut the live TV feed and the commercials that only show men as drunken idiots, drunken leches, or bumbling idiots (notice: drunken and idiots is a repeating theme). As a society, we need to come to terms with masc…

> As a society, we need to come to terms with masculinity. That means men need to be able to be masculine without being domineering and without being castigated. You're doing the exact same thing you're complaining about. This is a social problem towards men, it is not a mans problem they need to solve for themselves. The issue has nothing to do with masculinity and everything to do with the current crop of overly lo…

just wanted to let you know I agree.

cheers, mate

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#259

Post by ryanx435 »

morpheous wrote: post #236

Crying IS a sign of weakness and immaturity. Ever wondered why children cry more than adults? We're turning into a bunch of sissy, "touchy feely" men in the west - it's enough to drive anyone to suicide. This whole political correctness thing has gone too far - and I say that as a minority myself. Yeah, so I'll get downvoted - so what?! - Newsflash - there are more important things in life than points on HN!

just wanted to let you know I agree with you. cheers, mate :)

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#260

Post by GuiA »

dragonwriter wrote: post #214
ep103 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've deleted this comment based on replies, I may have had wrong information : )

You can try, but every study I've seen has found that men are favored in contested custody proceedings. Its true that women are more likely to end up with custody, but that appears to because they are vastly more likely to seek custody.

'arzugula (who replied to 'dragonwriter with an appropriate post), your account is shadow banned.
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