31–40 of 69 posts
Temple CS '08 grad here. They had us writing C, lisp, and x86 asm (simple multiple precision arithmetic) in the first year. I think she's exaggerating a bit.
Java was introduced in the third and fourth years when they started on higher level data structures and abstractions.
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How do you see software engineers and computer scientists differentiated in the job market? It seems like there's a ton of bleed.
The computer scientist is theoretical. The software engineer is practical - like the difference between a mechanical engineer, and a mechanic?
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I would guess that even Software Engineering students would have to go through Calculus (just because it is a good weed out if for nothing else) and other math heavy, theoretical practice -- just like other Engineers. What they want is almost a Software Technician degree. Someone that can put together apps and know how to troubleshoot but who are not working on the bleeding edge but putting together technology that o…
> Calculus (just because it is a good weed out if for nothing else) Nothing should be in the curriculum as a 'weed out'. Every class should justify itself in technical content. CS needs calculus absolutely, but for the ideas, not as a hurdle.
For chemical engineering I (barely) remember taking Latin. And this at a school that prides itself on engineering focus and keeping things tight.
Hell, my wife had to retake an art and history class to get into a nursing program because photography and cold war history didn't 'count' somehow.
I'm all for paring that kind of fluff down.
Then again, there is something to be said for weed out courses. They are easy to teach therefore easy to find resources for, they are generally useful (for many calculus is their first introduction to proofs outside of geometry), and so you can pack a bunch of hopefuls in before wasting more specialized time and effort on lost causes.
Shouldn't they create a Software Engineering program and then leave Computer Science alone?
then nobody, like almost nobody would major in computer science. the article started off as a good look at where computer science is / needs to go and then disintegrated into a 'why aren't there more women engineers?' ok... why aren't there more women garbage men? erm, garbage people? anyways, I think computer science programs have come a long long way since the early 2000s. I think the major thing computer science m…
I think you're underestimating what 18 year olds are willing to put themselves through.
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I would guess that even Software Engineering students would have to go through Calculus (just because it is a good weed out if for nothing else) and other math heavy, theoretical practice -- just like other Engineers. What they want is almost a Software Technician degree. Someone that can put together apps and know how to troubleshoot but who are not working on the bleeding edge but putting together technology that o…
I wouldn't call it a "Technician" since that gets a little confusing with certificates and such, but I take your meaning. Basically these folks are looking for what a technical college would teach but they want a university name on their diploma.
If you want to do anything more interesting than that (AI, embedded systems, HPC, etc.), then college may prove useful.
Also, this person's experience of barely programming by senior year is highly atypical. Many CS colleges today don't even have pure theory courses until a few years in.
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The computer scientist is theoretical. The software engineer is practical - like the difference between a mechanical engineer, and a mechanic?
Right, I get that. But if you look at job listings and see one for "computer scientist" and one for "software engineer," what sorts of things would you expect to see under each listing's "required skills" and "duties/responsibilities"?
Maybe that's broken - more shops could sure use a good designer who understands the complexity of problems. But I don't see designers very often, and I've worked at dozens of places.
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100% agreed! This paragraph is telling: "For example, Temple’s computer science program still requires Calculus 1 and 2. It turns a lot of students off and isn’t really necessary to become a developer, Shi admits. These aren’t problems specific to Temple, he said. They plague most computer science programs." There. Calculus may not be necessary to be a web developer (then again, I suspect even then it is, at least fo…
You seem to be blaming the student. Did I know as a 17-year-old applying to college what the hell the difference was? No. Did I study CS? Yes. Was it the right decision? Probably not (though I did stay in it). And I had about every advantage in the world of being exposed to programming from when I was 5 or 6. Maybe the craziest part of the US college system, and technical fields in particular, is that most people don…
Not that anyone does.
The journalist wrote from the perspective of the "computer science" curriculum being "wrong" or "not relevant" to real world skills those students wanted to learn. However, the other perspective the journalist could have explained was that the students misunderstood what a "computer science" degree actually is . The Computer Science curricula grew out of the Mathematics department. That's why it has classes on topics…
100% agreed! This paragraph is telling: "For example, Temple’s computer science program still requires Calculus 1 and 2. It turns a lot of students off and isn’t really necessary to become a developer, Shi admits. These aren’t problems specific to Temple, he said. They plague most computer science programs." There. Calculus may not be necessary to be a web developer (then again, I suspect even then it is, at least fo…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
100% agreed! This paragraph is telling: "For example, Temple’s computer science program still requires Calculus 1 and 2. It turns a lot of students off and isn’t really necessary to become a developer, Shi admits. These aren’t problems specific to Temple, he said. They plague most computer science programs." There. Calculus may not be necessary to be a web developer (then again, I suspect even then it is, at least fo…
You seem to be blaming the student. Did I know as a 17-year-old applying to college what the hell the difference was? No. Did I study CS? Yes. Was it the right decision? Probably not (though I did stay in it). And I had about every advantage in the world of being exposed to programming from when I was 5 or 6. Maybe the craziest part of the US college system, and technical fields in particular, is that most people don…
I'm not truly blaming the student. It's an honest mistake to make. However, I see this same mistake (CS == programming) propagated online by people who should know better. Whenever someone links to "The Perils of Java Schools" by Spolsky, in relation to a debate about CS, he/she is doing this. Java/C#/C++/${LANGUAGE} doesn't matter in this context because a CS education isn't about learning a particular programming language. And this article, while not written by one of these people who should know better, doesn't help.